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Not much point here (UK). It’s difficult to get anyone to move or even install it. No one cares enough to show any interest. Needs to be a large billboard mark

by neepi 1y ago

Not much point here (UK). It’s difficult to get anyone to move or even install it. No one cares enough to show any interest. Needs to be a large billboard marketing campaign which is “zuck eats children and owns WhatsApp” or something. Then you might get 5% of people move over. My immediate family are on it and two friends. That represents a year of trying.

loehnsberg 1y ago
I made that same experience. You can get individual people to install it, sure, you may even get a group to do this if you start it, but good luck convincing the other parents of your kid‘s sports team group, which btw you must be part of. Unfortunately, we living beings tend to go with what costs the least amount of energy - this being thinking and going through extra efforts to achieve a goal. Hence, we‘re stuck with WhatsApp by a law of nature.
eknkc 1y ago
Yup. These apps are not used in isolation and I find it funny that the tech people argue which is better and why. The one everyone uses is better. If you dont have a way to move masses, it does not matter.
- cuu508 1y ago
  > If you dont have a way to move masses Or the guts to say "I'm going this way, I'll be happy if you join me" and follow through
  - eknkc 1y ago
    I’m in Turkey no UK or US so I can only speak for here. It’d be like denouncing electricity and saying join me. Good luck with that. Its not friends and family. Our office administration basically runs on a WhatsApp group. I just sent a location to a plumber using WhatsApp. They dont know / use / want anything else. At best, you might get some close people to use Signal or whatever but you have to use whatsapp to function. Especially American people won’t understand that because I believe iMessage and SMS is still the de facto standard. That would be WA here.
- yusina 1y ago
  So you don't go vote in elections either? Because "if you dont have a way to move masses, it does not matter."
djaychela 1y ago
I would strongly disagree (respectfully). I'm in the UK. I've been using Signal for years, precisely because of WhatsApp and Meta and what they really stand for. Kids (adult) and family are all on it because of me. Initially, I was the only person who used it, but I refused to used WhatsApp and got four of my friends (who were the only real group chat users I was interested in talking to) to use Signal. We all regularly use it, even though they are all on WhatsApp. They know my ethical objections to WA and Meta. Every Friday there will be a group call - even though we're all on iPhones now (I was on Android for many years). One in particular takes the mickey out of me for it sometimes because he says "What difference are you making? One Person? Makes no odds." But it -does- make a difference. A tiny one, maybe, but it's something that has been worth making the effort for. I think it's important to tread the right line between expressing why you're doing it and not making yourself unpopular but I think it's an important thing to try to do. And now if anyone asks if I have WA I just say I don't use it, you can either text me or use Signal. I have probably 20 contacts on there, and anyone who I have meaningful connections with uses Signal. Once installed it's basically zero friction for them, they just find me there instead of WA. I know network effects are massive, and it won't shift any time soon, but I think it's important to draw an ethical line in the sand, and it's something I decided to do a long time ago. One guy gave me a WA ultimatum and I just said "OK, but that's not for me, I'm not using it", and that was that for about a month. Then he installed Signal. Any business that communicates via it I express my preference and if they insist that's how they message (had this with an insurance company!) then I say I won't use their business any longer.
- neepi 1y ago
  I think you might be an outlier. I've got 150 contacts on whatsapp, over 200 on my phone. I am on several organised groups on whatsapp with 150+ members who use it for event management. They are never going to signal. There isn't the momentum.
  - djaychela 1y ago
    >I think you might be an outlier. I may well be. But outliers are important. It is possible. WA has massive network effects, of course. It's embedded. And I agree it's unlikely to change without a combination of legal controls and societal awareness (both of which seem extremely less likely than say a year ago). But if everyone gave up when faced with such a situation, the world would be in a worse place than it is today. And Meta are relying on exactly that happening.
safety1st 1y ago
This article from Green Stars, whoever they are, is making the argument that you should switch away from Whatsapp because Zuck leaned hard into US conservative politics, and because of Cambridge Analytica and other ways that Meta has played fast and loose with its tracking of you. I feel like that's all just wayyyyy too esoteric to the average person. I mean if those things (company founder has bad politics and too much invasive tracking) were a hard pass I would pretty much have to throw away my phone. We might care a lot about tracking here on HN but the average person really doesn't. On the other hand, the big thing in the news right now is that Whatsapp will soon roll out ads. People don't really care that Zuck stole their data and kissed Trump's ass. But they do hate ads. I think the more ads Whatsapp shows, the bigger the opening will be for someone else to come along and convince people to switch.

by neepi 1y ago

loehnsberg 1y ago

I made that same experience. You can get individual people to install it, sure, you may even get a group to do this if you start it, but good luck convincing the other parents of your kid‘s sports team group, which btw you must be part of. Unfortunately, we living beings tend to go with what costs the least amount of energy - this being thinking and going through extra efforts to achieve a goal. Hence, we‘re stuck with WhatsApp by a law of nature.

eknkc 1y ago

Yup. These apps are not used in isolation and I find it funny that the tech people argue which is better and why. The one everyone uses is better. If you dont have a way to move masses, it does not matter.

cuu508 1y ago
> If you dont have a way to move masses Or the guts to say "I'm going this way, I'll be happy if you join me" and follow through
- eknkc 1y ago
  I’m in Turkey no UK or US so I can only speak for here. It’d be like denouncing electricity and saying join me. Good luck with that. Its not friends and family. Our office administration basically runs on a WhatsApp group. I just sent a location to a plumber using WhatsApp. They dont know / use / want anything else. At best, you might get some close people to use Signal or whatever but you have to use whatsapp to function. Especially American people won’t understand that because I believe iMessage and SMS is still the de facto standard. That would be WA here.
yusina 1y ago
So you don't go vote in elections either? Because "if you dont have a way to move masses, it does not matter."

djaychela 1y ago

I would strongly disagree (respectfully). I'm in the UK. I've been using Signal for years, precisely because of WhatsApp and Meta and what they really stand for. Kids (adult) and family are all on it because of me. Initially, I was the only person who used it, but I refused to used WhatsApp and got four of my friends (who were the only real group chat users I was interested in talking to) to use Signal. We all regularly use it, even though they are all on WhatsApp. They know my ethical objections to WA and Meta. Every Friday there will be a group call - even though we're all on iPhones now (I was on Android for many years). One in particular takes the mickey out of me for it sometimes because he says "What difference are you making? One Person? Makes no odds." But it -does- make a difference. A tiny one, maybe, but it's something that has been worth making the effort for. I think it's important to tread the right line between expressing why you're doing it and not making yourself unpopular but I think it's an important thing to try to do. And now if anyone asks if I have WA I just say I don't use it, you can either text me or use Signal. I have probably 20 contacts on there, and anyone who I have meaningful connections with uses Signal. Once installed it's basically zero friction for them, they just find me there instead of WA. I know network effects are massive, and it won't shift any time soon, but I think it's important to draw an ethical line in the sand, and it's something I decided to do a long time ago. One guy gave me a WA ultimatum and I just said "OK, but that's not for me, I'm not using it", and that was that for about a month. Then he installed Signal. Any business that communicates via it I express my preference and if they insist that's how they message (had this with an insurance company!) then I say I won't use their business any longer.

neepi 1y ago
I think you might be an outlier. I've got 150 contacts on whatsapp, over 200 on my phone. I am on several organised groups on whatsapp with 150+ members who use it for event management. They are never going to signal. There isn't the momentum.
- djaychela 1y ago
  >I think you might be an outlier. I may well be. But outliers are important. It is possible. WA has massive network effects, of course. It's embedded. And I agree it's unlikely to change without a combination of legal controls and societal awareness (both of which seem extremely less likely than say a year ago). But if everyone gave up when faced with such a situation, the world would be in a worse place than it is today. And Meta are relying on exactly that happening.

safety1st 1y ago

This article from Green Stars, whoever they are, is making the argument that you should switch away from Whatsapp because Zuck leaned hard into US conservative politics, and because of Cambridge Analytica and other ways that Meta has played fast and loose with its tracking of you. I feel like that's all just wayyyyy too esoteric to the average person. I mean if those things (company founder has bad politics and too much invasive tracking) were a hard pass I would pretty much have to throw away my phone. We might care a lot about tracking here on HN but the average person really doesn't. On the other hand, the big thing in the news right now is that Whatsapp will soon roll out ads. People don't really care that Zuck stole their data and kissed Trump's ass. But they do hate ads. I think the more ads Whatsapp shows, the bigger the opening will be for someone else to come along and convince people to switch.