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For some of us, YouTube is part of our creative and mindful pursuits. It either drives our interests (much like reading a magazine about specialized topics woul

by the_af 1y ago

For some of us, YouTube is part of our creative and mindful pursuits. It either drives our interests (much like reading a magazine about specialized topics would, in the past), or explains how to do something, or simply builds a community of like minded people all over the world. I find the argument of "how much you don't need in your life" not very compelling. On one hand, we "need" very little: health, food, shelter. On the other, a life worth living is made of everything else that is not, strictly speaking, truly needed: ideas, hobbies, passions, entertainment, projects, etc.

uncircle 1y ago
Passively consuming content is not the same as reading a magazine or a book. Agreed that anyone can fill their own free time with whatever they want. But youtube is just junk food for the mind, packaged as stuff that interests you. It’s conveniently split to increase ad revenue, uses clickbait to drive engagement, and all the techniques developed on TV the past 80 years to keep us glued in front of the screen. Youtube and the “content” itself is designed to keep you watching. And I say that as someone who used to mainly watch long form essays, not the trending bullshit. It’s all just distraction and opium for the masses, disguised as edutainment.
- the_af 1y ago
  > But youtube is just junk food for the mind, packaged as stuff that interests you This is demonstrably false. There's no such thing as "YouTube stuff", there's thousands of people uploading videos, some interesting to you, some not, some junk, some very in-depth, some garbage, some very thoughtful -- Sturgeon's Law applies. There are music videos, science videos, history videos, hobby videos, videos analyzing everything under the sun (e.g. the amazing Every Frame A Painting), etc. I don't know which videos you watch, but mine aren't "junk food".
  - uncircle 1y ago
    It is not demonstrably false. You operate under the assumption that more knowledge and the more you know about things, the better. So from your point of view spending 12 hours watching philosophy essays and history videos can only be a good thing. Well, I strongly disagree with this (widespread) premise. It is still marketing-driven consumption and another form of pervasive distraction which plagues the modern world, whether you spend 6 hours watching reality TV or essays on the conquests of Genghis Khan. What matters is how much time you spend in a stupor passively receiving useless information, to detach yourself from a reality you have no control over; the content itself is just a matter of taste. I want to stress there is of course a difference between decompressing with a nice and well-written YouTube video after dinner and wasting your life watching memes. But it is still a form of distraction, and YouTube does its utmost to make the experience as exciting and addictive as possible, just like McDonalds.
    - the_af 1y ago
      > It is not demonstrably false Yes, yes it is. I only have to find one non-junk video to invalidate your assertion, and since I've found hundreds, your assertion is false. > You operate under the assumption that more knowledge and the more you know about things, the better. So from your point of view spending 12 hours watching philosophy essays and history videos can only be a good thing No, I said nothing of the sort. It's very difficult to discuss anything with someone having such a difficulty engaging with the arguments as stated. By the way, if you're going to make the claim that knowing more (or being curious about the world) is not a good pursuit in life, then... good luck with that! You won't find many people who agree. > What matters is how much time you spend in a stupor passively receiving useless information, to detach yourself from a reality you have no control over; the content itself is just a matter of taste. Wow. Stupor? Useless? Who are you to determine what is stupefying or useless to others? (By the way, I fixed my toilet thanks to a YouTube video teaching me how. Was this useless and stupefying?). > But it is still a form of distraction, and YouTube does its utmost to make the experience as exciting and addictive as possible, just like McDonalds. Everything that is not sleeping, eating and taking a dump is a form of distraction. This doesn't provide any insight. Don't make the mistake of thinking that the kind of videos you find in YouTube is what someone else arguing with you is watching. Maybe you watched junk videos, and they shaped your opinion of YouTube. Maybe you're logged off, in which case YouTube's recommendations are so random and garbage, they could give you a bad impression. I'm always logged in, and the recommendations I get are mostly relevant and good quality; I seldom get recommended meme videos or garbage. PS: I'm sure someone once made the same argument you're making, only about books.
    - ratmeadow 1y ago
      I think your point is great and we are on the same page. It very much is an issue of philosophy towards wellbeing. Without trying to sound too up my own ass, I think people differ on their perspectives here because they are on different points in the journey of understanding life and their wellbeing. I used to be of the opinion that limitless technology in all forms is brilliant, and no of course mobiles phones are not an issue, social media is fine, and me watching 6 hours of youtube a day is great! You could argue with me all day and my opinion wouldn't have changed because it was beyond my framework of thinking about life to have a different opinion. And then gradually, after a lot of learning about the world and myself, my framework has changed. Now I realise my opinions before were not as aligned with my own wellbeing as they could have been. I would invite everyone to take time to reflect and consider alternative ways of living which could be more beneficial for them and the world.
ratmeadow 1y ago
Each to their own. I'm not saying youtube is all garbage useless content, definitely there are quality conversations about varying topics. The level of community probably varies between interests and for my interests, youtube was hardly a core facet of the hobby. Perhaps for you it's different. However, I will add 2 counterpoints. Firstly, I don't think consuming a huge amount (e.g. the amount I was) of passive video content is good for your wellbeing. Second, I think it's interesting to examine why youtube must "drive" your hobby/interest to a large degree. Is there perhaps a mental trap of thinking you must be in with the crowd and the latest and greatest? What about growing your creative pursuit organically through your own journey? Just things to consider - may or may not be applicable. It was applicable for me and my photography hobby. There's tonnes of photography content out there but most of it is generic crap and I've found it more rewarding to go my own path so to speak.
- the_af 1y ago
  > Second, I think it's interesting to examine why youtube must "drive" your hobby/interest to a large degree. Is there perhaps a mental trap of thinking you must be in with the crowd and the latest and greatest? No? There's the "human as a social animal" aspect, I enjoy being part of a community. Nothing particular to YouTube here.
  - ratmeadow 1y ago
    Your point about community is valid, we need community. I would argue though that digital community is a tenuous definition in comparison to in-person community. I won't claim this doesn't differ person to person but for me doing a hobby with people has no comparsion to watching youtube videos about the hobby (even though I am introverted). I like to consider to myself: "is this digital interaction preventing or taking the place of an in-person interaction I could be having right now?" 6 hours of youtube a day was preventing a lot. Further I considered my own hobbies which themselves were primarily digital and may be unhelpful for finding fulfilment in social aspects of life.

by the_af 1y ago

uncircle 1y ago

Passively consuming content is not the same as reading a magazine or a book. Agreed that anyone can fill their own free time with whatever they want. But youtube is just junk food for the mind, packaged as stuff that interests you. It’s conveniently split to increase ad revenue, uses clickbait to drive engagement, and all the techniques developed on TV the past 80 years to keep us glued in front of the screen. Youtube and the “content” itself is designed to keep you watching. And I say that as someone who used to mainly watch long form essays, not the trending bullshit. It’s all just distraction and opium for the masses, disguised as edutainment.

the_af 1y ago
> But youtube is just junk food for the mind, packaged as stuff that interests you This is demonstrably false. There's no such thing as "YouTube stuff", there's thousands of people uploading videos, some interesting to you, some not, some junk, some very in-depth, some garbage, some very thoughtful -- Sturgeon's Law applies. There are music videos, science videos, history videos, hobby videos, videos analyzing everything under the sun (e.g. the amazing Every Frame A Painting), etc. I don't know which videos you watch, but mine aren't "junk food".
- uncircle 1y ago
  It is not demonstrably false. You operate under the assumption that more knowledge and the more you know about things, the better. So from your point of view spending 12 hours watching philosophy essays and history videos can only be a good thing. Well, I strongly disagree with this (widespread) premise. It is still marketing-driven consumption and another form of pervasive distraction which plagues the modern world, whether you spend 6 hours watching reality TV or essays on the conquests of Genghis Khan. What matters is how much time you spend in a stupor passively receiving useless information, to detach yourself from a reality you have no control over; the content itself is just a matter of taste. I want to stress there is of course a difference between decompressing with a nice and well-written YouTube video after dinner and wasting your life watching memes. But it is still a form of distraction, and YouTube does its utmost to make the experience as exciting and addictive as possible, just like McDonalds.
  - the_af 1y ago
    > It is not demonstrably false Yes, yes it is. I only have to find one non-junk video to invalidate your assertion, and since I've found hundreds, your assertion is false. > You operate under the assumption that more knowledge and the more you know about things, the better. So from your point of view spending 12 hours watching philosophy essays and history videos can only be a good thing No, I said nothing of the sort. It's very difficult to discuss anything with someone having such a difficulty engaging with the arguments as stated. By the way, if you're going to make the claim that knowing more (or being curious about the world) is not a good pursuit in life, then... good luck with that! You won't find many people who agree. > What matters is how much time you spend in a stupor passively receiving useless information, to detach yourself from a reality you have no control over; the content itself is just a matter of taste. Wow. Stupor? Useless? Who are you to determine what is stupefying or useless to others? (By the way, I fixed my toilet thanks to a YouTube video teaching me how. Was this useless and stupefying?). > But it is still a form of distraction, and YouTube does its utmost to make the experience as exciting and addictive as possible, just like McDonalds. Everything that is not sleeping, eating and taking a dump is a form of distraction. This doesn't provide any insight. Don't make the mistake of thinking that the kind of videos you find in YouTube is what someone else arguing with you is watching. Maybe you watched junk videos, and they shaped your opinion of YouTube. Maybe you're logged off, in which case YouTube's recommendations are so random and garbage, they could give you a bad impression. I'm always logged in, and the recommendations I get are mostly relevant and good quality; I seldom get recommended meme videos or garbage. PS: I'm sure someone once made the same argument you're making, only about books.
  - ratmeadow 1y ago
    I think your point is great and we are on the same page. It very much is an issue of philosophy towards wellbeing. Without trying to sound too up my own ass, I think people differ on their perspectives here because they are on different points in the journey of understanding life and their wellbeing. I used to be of the opinion that limitless technology in all forms is brilliant, and no of course mobiles phones are not an issue, social media is fine, and me watching 6 hours of youtube a day is great! You could argue with me all day and my opinion wouldn't have changed because it was beyond my framework of thinking about life to have a different opinion. And then gradually, after a lot of learning about the world and myself, my framework has changed. Now I realise my opinions before were not as aligned with my own wellbeing as they could have been. I would invite everyone to take time to reflect and consider alternative ways of living which could be more beneficial for them and the world.

ratmeadow 1y ago

Each to their own. I'm not saying youtube is all garbage useless content, definitely there are quality conversations about varying topics. The level of community probably varies between interests and for my interests, youtube was hardly a core facet of the hobby. Perhaps for you it's different. However, I will add 2 counterpoints. Firstly, I don't think consuming a huge amount (e.g. the amount I was) of passive video content is good for your wellbeing. Second, I think it's interesting to examine why youtube must "drive" your hobby/interest to a large degree. Is there perhaps a mental trap of thinking you must be in with the crowd and the latest and greatest? What about growing your creative pursuit organically through your own journey? Just things to consider - may or may not be applicable. It was applicable for me and my photography hobby. There's tonnes of photography content out there but most of it is generic crap and I've found it more rewarding to go my own path so to speak.

the_af 1y ago
> Second, I think it's interesting to examine why youtube must "drive" your hobby/interest to a large degree. Is there perhaps a mental trap of thinking you must be in with the crowd and the latest and greatest? No? There's the "human as a social animal" aspect, I enjoy being part of a community. Nothing particular to YouTube here.
- ratmeadow 1y ago
  Your point about community is valid, we need community. I would argue though that digital community is a tenuous definition in comparison to in-person community. I won't claim this doesn't differ person to person but for me doing a hobby with people has no comparsion to watching youtube videos about the hobby (even though I am introverted). I like to consider to myself: "is this digital interaction preventing or taking the place of an in-person interaction I could be having right now?" 6 hours of youtube a day was preventing a lot. Further I considered my own hobbies which themselves were primarily digital and may be unhelpful for finding fulfilment in social aspects of life.