4 ms·

Is it the phone or is it the internet you're lamenting? Sounds like the latter. I think TFA misattributes this as well.

by bavell 1y ago

voidhorse 1y ago
The internet is the venom delivered by the parasite as it feeds on my attention.
- simianparrot 1y ago
  But it's not an autonomous entity. It's entirely passive if you turn it off, or uninstall all the apps that bother you. Stop feeding it your attention. Or are you claiming it's taken over your agency as well? If so -- and I mean this as respectfully as possible -- I'd hope you decide to talk with a healthcare professional about this problem.
  - endoblast 1y ago
    I used to think the same when people spoke of social media being addictive, but not any more. Drugs aren't autonomous either, however they clearly do remove some people's autonomy. I can well imagine now that a person could be addicted, particularly if he's grown up with it and has used it in the past to avoid facing his problems. “Thus, a good man, though a slave, is free; but a wicked man, though a king, is a slave. For he serves, not one man alone, but what is worse, as many masters as he has vices.” ― Augustine of Hippo (Not saying anybody around here is wicked just remembering a striking quote)
    - voidhorse 1y ago
      To add to your point, there's science behind it. What makes a drug addictive is the fact that, after you start using it, certain behavioral patterns move from conscious brain centers to habit driven centers. That's what makes addiction so hard to break, couple that with further biological dependence formation. I would not be at all surprised if the same phenomenon can happen with internet addiction, if maybe in a more benign form as far as bodily consequences go. So no, drugs are not "autonomous" but to act like it's an easy matter to simply refuse to do them once you've started is an attitude that's shockingly ignorant of much of the modern understanding of addiction.
      - simianparrot 1y ago
        I didn’t claim it was easy. I even advice getting professional help if the situation is so bad that the person’s own willpower is not enough. Drugs have additional chemical and physiological impacts that make them a very different beast, but obviously addiction can still be brutal even if it’s “just” an experience — look no further than gambling. For which most countries have strict laws and regulations, particularly when it comes to children. But let’s also not infantilise adults: People need to take responsibility for their own behavioural patterns.
- squishington 1y ago
  Hey mate. I don't want to be patronising, but it seems like you're suffering a bit and might benefit from some professional help. I get it, phones can become a stand in attachment figure for people who are experiencing personal difficulties. There are ways to overcome this but it requires professional expertise. I hope you can get some relief from this. These technologies are omnipresent in modern life and for many of us it isn't a simple matter of choosing to disengage. All the best.
  - voidhorse 1y ago
    I'm not being entirely serious. I was actually just having some rhetorical fun with the analogy, but it's sweet that the HN crowd is so quick to move into the mode of concern.
    - squishington 1y ago
      No worries man. I'm a bit autistic so I take things too literally sometimes. Can't help it.

Is it the phone or is it the internet you're lamenting? Sounds like the latter. I think TFA misattributes this as well.

by bavell 1y ago

Is it the phone or is it the internet you're lamenting? Sounds like the latter. I think TFA misattributes this as well.

voidhorse 1y ago

The internet is the venom delivered by the parasite as it feeds on my attention.

simianparrot 1y ago
But it's not an autonomous entity. It's entirely passive if you turn it off, or uninstall all the apps that bother you. Stop feeding it your attention. Or are you claiming it's taken over your agency as well? If so -- and I mean this as respectfully as possible -- I'd hope you decide to talk with a healthcare professional about this problem.
- endoblast 1y ago
  I used to think the same when people spoke of social media being addictive, but not any more. Drugs aren't autonomous either, however they clearly do remove some people's autonomy. I can well imagine now that a person could be addicted, particularly if he's grown up with it and has used it in the past to avoid facing his problems. “Thus, a good man, though a slave, is free; but a wicked man, though a king, is a slave. For he serves, not one man alone, but what is worse, as many masters as he has vices.” ― Augustine of Hippo (Not saying anybody around here is wicked just remembering a striking quote)
  - voidhorse 1y ago
    To add to your point, there's science behind it. What makes a drug addictive is the fact that, after you start using it, certain behavioral patterns move from conscious brain centers to habit driven centers. That's what makes addiction so hard to break, couple that with further biological dependence formation. I would not be at all surprised if the same phenomenon can happen with internet addiction, if maybe in a more benign form as far as bodily consequences go. So no, drugs are not "autonomous" but to act like it's an easy matter to simply refuse to do them once you've started is an attitude that's shockingly ignorant of much of the modern understanding of addiction.
    - simianparrot 1y ago
      I didn’t claim it was easy. I even advice getting professional help if the situation is so bad that the person’s own willpower is not enough. Drugs have additional chemical and physiological impacts that make them a very different beast, but obviously addiction can still be brutal even if it’s “just” an experience — look no further than gambling. For which most countries have strict laws and regulations, particularly when it comes to children. But let’s also not infantilise adults: People need to take responsibility for their own behavioural patterns.
squishington 1y ago
Hey mate. I don't want to be patronising, but it seems like you're suffering a bit and might benefit from some professional help. I get it, phones can become a stand in attachment figure for people who are experiencing personal difficulties. There are ways to overcome this but it requires professional expertise. I hope you can get some relief from this. These technologies are omnipresent in modern life and for many of us it isn't a simple matter of choosing to disengage. All the best.
- voidhorse 1y ago
  I'm not being entirely serious. I was actually just having some rhetorical fun with the analogy, but it's sweet that the HN crowd is so quick to move into the mode of concern.
  - squishington 1y ago
    No worries man. I'm a bit autistic so I take things too literally sometimes. Can't help it.