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The comforts of modern life will take a very significant hit if we really want to undo our polluting way of life. It can be done, but many people will vote with

The comforts of modern life will take a very significant hit if we really want to undo our polluting way of life. It can be done, but many people will vote with their wallets to keep those comforts as long as possible, and companies will fight to earn that profit as long as they can. I think nothing short of a global catastrophe will change people's minds.

wpollock 1y ago
> I think nothing short of a global catastrophe will change people's minds. You mean like global warming and how the climate change catastrophe we are experiencing has changed human behavior to stop polluting? <sarcastic mode> I can't imagine that anything will change the minds of the majority of people to the point where they drastically change their lifestyles.
- ASalazarMX 1y ago
  Well, it's not a catastrophe until it affects you. It needs to severely hit a critical mass of the population in developed countries; and by that time it may be too late. Anything less than critical mass can be swept under the rug by governments until your term is over.
- sorcerer-mar 1y ago
  This is why we make governments, to solve coordination problems.
  - card_zero 1y ago
    It's not usually an option, whether to have a government or not. And when it's deliberate, the motivation is invariably protection from somebody else's government.
Loughla 1y ago
The nice things about micro plastic is that it'll be slow and steady. So there's not a good chance of a catastrophe! Pretty sweet!
- grugagag 1y ago
  Im sure the concentration of microplastics is going to go up. Right now we’re talking just about microplastics but soon we’ll see stats showing how steady it’s accumulating everywhere.
sheepscreek 1y ago
Or a really solid better-in-every-way yet ecologically sound alternative. Then again, the battle is not on one turf - we need alternatives for a whole host of plastics and synthetic plastic like compounds (nylon, rayon, Teflon and friends…). Think PVC pipes, the rubbery insulation on wires, tires (which can have nylon and other synthetic materials other than rubber), high quality ropes/harnesses, nets, clothing of-course - the list is endless and each use case is unique. So what we might see is - an early adoption in some industries and use-cases and a slower adoption in others while better materials are invented/discovered. On a brighter note, with all the kick-ass compute we’ll have in triple digit billion dollar AI facilities, that opens up scope for new discoveries in science. Hopefully, accelerating its pace.
- zo1 1y ago
  We can buy ourselves a huge amount of time if we just stopped letting countries dump metric millions of tonnes of plastic into bodies of water for them to be endlessly ground-down into micro-sizes. As it is now, we're watching like deer in headlights, as the third-world pollutes the entire world with plastic. Micro-plastics and forever chemicals will be this century's Lead.
  - illiac786 1y ago
    Do you have any reference for this? My understanding is that the bigger consumer of plastic are first world countries, by far. And since decades.
    - zo1 1y ago
      https://www.weforum.org/stories/2018/06/90-of-plastic-polluting-our-oceans-comes-from-just-10-rivers/ https://www.weforum.org/stories/2018/06/90-of-plastic-pollut... And the paper: https://pubs.acs.org/doi/10.1021/acs.est.7b02368 https://pubs.acs.org/doi/10.1021/acs.est.7b02368
      - illiac786 1y ago
        I understand where the plastic ends, I am saying that is the not who where it is bought and thrown away. Developed countries consume (buy and throw away) most of the plastic. Then, on top of it, they ship their trash to third world countries.

wpollock 1y ago

> I think nothing short of a global catastrophe will change people's minds. You mean like global warming and how the climate change catastrophe we are experiencing has changed human behavior to stop polluting? <sarcastic mode> I can't imagine that anything will change the minds of the majority of people to the point where they drastically change their lifestyles.

ASalazarMX 1y ago
Well, it's not a catastrophe until it affects you. It needs to severely hit a critical mass of the population in developed countries; and by that time it may be too late. Anything less than critical mass can be swept under the rug by governments until your term is over.
sorcerer-mar 1y ago
This is why we make governments, to solve coordination problems.
- card_zero 1y ago
  It's not usually an option, whether to have a government or not. And when it's deliberate, the motivation is invariably protection from somebody else's government.

Loughla 1y ago

The nice things about micro plastic is that it'll be slow and steady. So there's not a good chance of a catastrophe! Pretty sweet!

grugagag 1y ago
Im sure the concentration of microplastics is going to go up. Right now we’re talking just about microplastics but soon we’ll see stats showing how steady it’s accumulating everywhere.

sheepscreek 1y ago

Or a really solid better-in-every-way yet ecologically sound alternative. Then again, the battle is not on one turf - we need alternatives for a whole host of plastics and synthetic plastic like compounds (nylon, rayon, Teflon and friends…). Think PVC pipes, the rubbery insulation on wires, tires (which can have nylon and other synthetic materials other than rubber), high quality ropes/harnesses, nets, clothing of-course - the list is endless and each use case is unique. So what we might see is - an early adoption in some industries and use-cases and a slower adoption in others while better materials are invented/discovered. On a brighter note, with all the kick-ass compute we’ll have in triple digit billion dollar AI facilities, that opens up scope for new discoveries in science. Hopefully, accelerating its pace.

zo1 1y ago
We can buy ourselves a huge amount of time if we just stopped letting countries dump metric millions of tonnes of plastic into bodies of water for them to be endlessly ground-down into micro-sizes. As it is now, we're watching like deer in headlights, as the third-world pollutes the entire world with plastic. Micro-plastics and forever chemicals will be this century's Lead.
- illiac786 1y ago
  Do you have any reference for this? My understanding is that the bigger consumer of plastic are first world countries, by far. And since decades.
  - zo1 1y ago
    https://www.weforum.org/stories/2018/06/90-of-plastic-polluting-our-oceans-comes-from-just-10-rivers/ https://www.weforum.org/stories/2018/06/90-of-plastic-pollut... And the paper: https://pubs.acs.org/doi/10.1021/acs.est.7b02368 https://pubs.acs.org/doi/10.1021/acs.est.7b02368
    - illiac786 1y ago
      I understand where the plastic ends, I am saying that is the not who where it is bought and thrown away. Developed countries consume (buy and throw away) most of the plastic. Then, on top of it, they ship their trash to third world countries.