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> [the housing crisis] What is the system going to do other than agree that people need... There are a multitude of things that could be done: public housing;

> [the housing crisis] What is the system going to do other than agree that people need... There are a multitude of things that could be done: public housing; rent caps; better zoning; ignoring nimby-ism; subisiding new and denser construction; subsidising first-time buyers; etc. > [homelessness] What is the system going to do other than agree that people need... Pass laws preventing (and undoing) hostile architecture; repeal vagrancy laws; open facilities for the safe consumption of drugs; more shelters; allow them to register a place (eg: a post office) as a permanent address to receive mail; subsidise places that open their toilets/showers to the homeless; repeal laws criminalising feeding the homeless; etc. > [wage theft] What is the system going to do other than... Make wage theft a crime instead of a civil wrong? And yes, one of the best ways is to join a union, so while we're here: repeal all union-busting laws; laws that prevent unions from striking; and laws that let employers retaliate against union action; laws that let employers hire temporary replacement staff during a strike; etc. > ["delay, deny, defend"] The Amish... It's a little odd that you comparing liberals to a religious group that reject basically any technology from the industrial revolution and onward. Like, yes, the Amish generally have day-to-day better health outcomes due to the manual labour and better diet... but once you get cancer or need an x-ray or a blood transfusion or bone-marrow transplant or birth complications? The way to fix all this is universal healthcare, period. > [abortion rights] but at the end of the day rights are only as meaningful as the enforcement... It's kind of odd that you bring up cannabis here since this is in large part a liberal success of getting governments to listen to them and pass state-legislation to legalise cannabis. This is also an exceptionally odd take with regard to abortions: you are effectively saying that hospitals and medical professionals will be willing to risk their careers, licences, fines, and jail time, if not execution, if enough people want them to? What? Do you happen to be an anarchist? > [school shootings...] What is the systemic (or otherwise) solution here? This is tricky because solutions that have worked in other countries likely wouldn't in the US because of its obsession with guns. Some people say that it's not a gun crisis but a mental-health crisis... okay then, then let's fund mental health programmes like crazy? Ultimately, the best way to reduce gun crime is to reduce the amount of guns in circulation. That could mean gun buybacks; banning bump-stocks; making gun companies liable for crimes committed with their guns; force guns to require insurance; background checks; reverse the Supreme Court decision to separate federal gun rights from well-regulated militias; etc. --- There's a pattern here in your responses where you question the existence of systemic solutions to societal problems, and I have to ask: do you consider other countries at all? Obviously, like I've already mentioned, it's not always possible to simply adopt another country's policies 1:1 and have them work. But different countries have different rates of these issues: do you think that countries with less just have a more charitable populous or something? I mean, there may be some truth to that, but all your responses here are essentially rejecting the notion of systemic solutions at all in favour of just being charitable. Liberals are more likely to think in terms of systems, and I may concede that many liberals are stuck in systemic thinking. But all this is ultimately missing this point of my original comment: we're quibbling here over how to solve societal problems... conservatives don't do this, they just accept these issues as facts of life and don't spend time worrying about them at all.

siglosi 1y ago
there is much to desire for cities in america. there was a push for a 15 minute walkable city, towards long term sustainable models. i feel something like a 15 minute electric bike city would provide a retail shed model that surpasses the automobile
9rx 1y ago
> public housing Not without people. You already can't get a house built now unless you're willing to wait years. But what good is a house years in the future if you need shelter now? That's not to say stop building, but it remains that more people are needed to have any hope of catching up to what is actually needed. A great way to attract more people is to pay more, of course, but guess what that does? It increases the cost of housing even more! The only way out of this is to see people start voluntarily (possibly with a token payment, but certainly not the market rate) offering their services to build houses. > rent caps The formal definition of storage is: A situation where an external mechanism, such as government intervention, prevents price from rising. Do you think introducing a housing shortage is the best idea here? In any other world a shortage is considered a crisis in its own right. > subisiding new and denser construction You can open your wallet instead of volunteering, I suppose, as that's ultimately the same thing at the end of the day. But you don't need the system to open your wallet for you. Just do it! > It's a little odd that you comparing liberals to a religious group that reject basically any technology from the industrial revolution and onward. That's a bit of a strange characterization. They reject any technology that they fear will impact the family unit (which is why you see strange things in certain churches like brand new tractors with metal wheels; with the thinking being that rubber tires would make it easy to leave the family behind), but healthcare is definitely not that. Health is essential to maintaining the family unit! > but once you get cancer or need an x-ray or a blood transfusion or bone-marrow transplant or birth complications? The way to fix all this is universal healthcare, period. Yes, exactly. Insurance isn't limited to healthcare, but in the case of healthcare that's exactly what the Amish in the USA have: Universal healthcare (where universal is with respect to those within their community). Were you under the impression that they reject healthcare or something? They don't, actually. Their system is self-administered, operated by the people of the Amish community. As before, it is recognized you need to have a community to make that work, but they prove you don't need the nebulous system to provide it. Just do it! If a community of liberals want this, there is nothing to stop it but themselves. > then let's fund mental health programmes like crazy? By funding, you mean pay people to do work? Why not just step up do the work yourself? Or, failing that, pony up and pay someone else to do the work? You don't need the system here, just do it! Look, I fully understand the appeal of hoping someone else will do it. I don't want to do any of these things either. But if I'm not going to do, why would anyone else? Why would I expect it of someone else? That is strangely irrational. > do you consider other countries at all? Certainly my own. Last time I checked I live in a country that is not the one in subject. But the topic has been about one particular country since the onset, so one cannot detour too far into what goes on in other countries without straying beyond what the discussion is about. For the sake of good faith participation, it is best to stay on-topic as much as possible. > conservatives don't do this, they just accept these issues as facts of life and don't spend time worrying about them at all. Right, the idea given at the onset was that conservatives recognize that if they're too lazy to do something, everyone else will be too. In contrast, liberals seem to think that everyone but themselves sit around bored all day just waiting for instructions, then act surprised when that isn't the case. I asked earlier if you felt that was an unfair characterization, but I didn't pick up on your answer (if you gave it).

siglosi 1y ago

there is much to desire for cities in america. there was a push for a 15 minute walkable city, towards long term sustainable models. i feel something like a 15 minute electric bike city would provide a retail shed model that surpasses the automobile

9rx 1y ago

> public housing Not without people. You already can't get a house built now unless you're willing to wait years. But what good is a house years in the future if you need shelter now? That's not to say stop building, but it remains that more people are needed to have any hope of catching up to what is actually needed. A great way to attract more people is to pay more, of course, but guess what that does? It increases the cost of housing even more! The only way out of this is to see people start voluntarily (possibly with a token payment, but certainly not the market rate) offering their services to build houses. > rent caps The formal definition of storage is: A situation where an external mechanism, such as government intervention, prevents price from rising. Do you think introducing a housing shortage is the best idea here? In any other world a shortage is considered a crisis in its own right. > subisiding new and denser construction You can open your wallet instead of volunteering, I suppose, as that's ultimately the same thing at the end of the day. But you don't need the system to open your wallet for you. Just do it! > It's a little odd that you comparing liberals to a religious group that reject basically any technology from the industrial revolution and onward. That's a bit of a strange characterization. They reject any technology that they fear will impact the family unit (which is why you see strange things in certain churches like brand new tractors with metal wheels; with the thinking being that rubber tires would make it easy to leave the family behind), but healthcare is definitely not that. Health is essential to maintaining the family unit! > but once you get cancer or need an x-ray or a blood transfusion or bone-marrow transplant or birth complications? The way to fix all this is universal healthcare, period. Yes, exactly. Insurance isn't limited to healthcare, but in the case of healthcare that's exactly what the Amish in the USA have: Universal healthcare (where universal is with respect to those within their community). Were you under the impression that they reject healthcare or something? They don't, actually. Their system is self-administered, operated by the people of the Amish community. As before, it is recognized you need to have a community to make that work, but they prove you don't need the nebulous system to provide it. Just do it! If a community of liberals want this, there is nothing to stop it but themselves. > then let's fund mental health programmes like crazy? By funding, you mean pay people to do work? Why not just step up do the work yourself? Or, failing that, pony up and pay someone else to do the work? You don't need the system here, just do it! Look, I fully understand the appeal of hoping someone else will do it. I don't want to do any of these things either. But if I'm not going to do, why would anyone else? Why would I expect it of someone else? That is strangely irrational. > do you consider other countries at all? Certainly my own. Last time I checked I live in a country that is not the one in subject. But the topic has been about one particular country since the onset, so one cannot detour too far into what goes on in other countries without straying beyond what the discussion is about. For the sake of good faith participation, it is best to stay on-topic as much as possible. > conservatives don't do this, they just accept these issues as facts of life and don't spend time worrying about them at all. Right, the idea given at the onset was that conservatives recognize that if they're too lazy to do something, everyone else will be too. In contrast, liberals seem to think that everyone but themselves sit around bored all day just waiting for instructions, then act surprised when that isn't the case. I asked earlier if you felt that was an unfair characterization, but I didn't pick up on your answer (if you gave it).