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I'm surprised they are investing into this. I checked Phoenix recently because I was interested in LiveView and there isn't even an official AWS SDK for Elixir.

by pier25 1y ago

I'm surprised they are investing into this. I checked Phoenix recently because I was interested in LiveView and there isn't even an official AWS SDK for Elixir. Honestly doubt the AI stuff is going to move the needle much if you can't even have a dependable S3 client.

conradfr 1y ago
But there's two actively non-official maintained libs.
olafura 1y ago
What are you talking about, there has been a AWS client forever and I've never had a problem. It's not something you really need an official sdk for they are anyway often just reference because you might want different performance characteristics. https://hex.pm/packages/ex_aws https://hex.pm/packages/ex_aws https://hex.pm/packages/ex_aws_s3 https://hex.pm/packages/ex_aws_s3 I've usually not seen more than 3 or so official SDK for most services and there are a lot more programming languages than that. For example Microsoft's Graph API doesn't have an official Ruby client, they have one that sort of works.
- Snakes3727 1y ago
  Neither of them are official which is often a non starter for some large enterprise customers.
  - pier25 1y ago
    Not only large enterprise customers. Anyone who's thinking mid or long term.
    - sysashi 1y ago
      Why do you need an official SDK to make http calls?
      - pier25 1y ago
        Why do you even need a framework like Phoenix? Just write everything yourself! /s
    - olafura 1y ago
      I still don't understand this. If you are big enough then you get Amazon to make an official sdk, if you aren't then what exactly are you looking for? The official aws cli used to talk to the soap interface and used regex instead of actually doing correct error handling and that was used by so many tools. Even though it used to break horrible. It's quite a niche you are talking about, not big enough to debug open source code but still big enough to require SLA for SDK and not being able to talk Amazon into creating it. It's generated code, it's not rocket science. What I have experienced is that software licence, where you are sending data to, where you are hosting it and having access to audit the code has usually been a bigger concern. But then again big organisations often have really specific concerns. So I'm not doubting your statement it's just that I have never heard it before.
      - pier25 1y ago
        > what exactly are you looking for? I'm not looking for anything. I'm describing my experience when evaluating Elixir/Phoenix recently. I'm also questioning the investment into AI tooling when there are far more pressing issues that are hurting adoption.
        olafura 1y ago
        If you want we can schedule a quick video call. Just curious about the problems you are facing.
    - quaunaut 1y ago
      The main lib everyone uses, :ex_aws, has been actively maintained for literally over a decade[1]. Official or not, it's used by literally the entire community, since even non-AWS services often will support its API. 1. https://github.com/ex-aws/ex_aws/releases?page=2 https://github.com/ex-aws/ex_aws/releases?page=2
techpression 1y ago
Considering the horror the official AWS CLI is this seems like a strange example. I’ve used both the non official libraries and they work fine. The one that is auto generated doesn’t feel very Elixir, but that’s to be expected.
- pier25 1y ago
  > I’ve used both the non official libraries and they work fine Maybe fine today but what about 5 years from now? Can you say, with any degree of confidence, if these these libraries are going to be properly maintained in the future? No, you cannot.
  - techpression 1y ago
    Goes for every library out there though. Official or not.
    - pier25 1y ago
      Not really. You can be much more confident the official AWS SDK will be available 5 or even 10 years from now.
chrismccord 1y ago
Meanwhile I am a happy user of :ex_aws or :req_s3 which has done everything I need it to do. Object ops, iam policies, etc. A dependable S3 client has been there for years. The elixir core team doesn't need to maintain it. ReqS3 is one of my favorite things to use: https://hexdocs.pm/req_s3/readme.html https://hexdocs.pm/req_s3/readme.html
- pier25 1y ago
  Maybe you can guarantee Phoenix will be maintained 5-10 years from now but that's really not the case for some random library on Github. If you look around you'll see this kind of stuff is really one of the biggest blockers for Elxir and Phoenix. Especially for something as fundamental as cloud storage.
4b11b4 1y ago
Not sure what you're talking about..

by pier25 1y ago

conradfr 1y ago

But there's two actively non-official maintained libs.

olafura 1y ago

What are you talking about, there has been a AWS client forever and I've never had a problem. It's not something you really need an official sdk for they are anyway often just reference because you might want different performance characteristics. https://hex.pm/packages/ex_aws https://hex.pm/packages/ex_aws https://hex.pm/packages/ex_aws_s3 https://hex.pm/packages/ex_aws_s3 I've usually not seen more than 3 or so official SDK for most services and there are a lot more programming languages than that. For example Microsoft's Graph API doesn't have an official Ruby client, they have one that sort of works.

Snakes3727 1y ago
Neither of them are official which is often a non starter for some large enterprise customers.
- pier25 1y ago
  Not only large enterprise customers. Anyone who's thinking mid or long term.
  - sysashi 1y ago
    Why do you need an official SDK to make http calls?
    - pier25 1y ago
      Why do you even need a framework like Phoenix? Just write everything yourself! /s
  - olafura 1y ago
    I still don't understand this. If you are big enough then you get Amazon to make an official sdk, if you aren't then what exactly are you looking for? The official aws cli used to talk to the soap interface and used regex instead of actually doing correct error handling and that was used by so many tools. Even though it used to break horrible. It's quite a niche you are talking about, not big enough to debug open source code but still big enough to require SLA for SDK and not being able to talk Amazon into creating it. It's generated code, it's not rocket science. What I have experienced is that software licence, where you are sending data to, where you are hosting it and having access to audit the code has usually been a bigger concern. But then again big organisations often have really specific concerns. So I'm not doubting your statement it's just that I have never heard it before.
    - pier25 1y ago
      > what exactly are you looking for? I'm not looking for anything. I'm describing my experience when evaluating Elixir/Phoenix recently. I'm also questioning the investment into AI tooling when there are far more pressing issues that are hurting adoption.
      - olafura 1y ago
        If you want we can schedule a quick video call. Just curious about the problems you are facing.
  - quaunaut 1y ago
    The main lib everyone uses, :ex_aws, has been actively maintained for literally over a decade[1]. Official or not, it's used by literally the entire community, since even non-AWS services often will support its API. 1. https://github.com/ex-aws/ex_aws/releases?page=2 https://github.com/ex-aws/ex_aws/releases?page=2

techpression 1y ago

Considering the horror the official AWS CLI is this seems like a strange example. I’ve used both the non official libraries and they work fine. The one that is auto generated doesn’t feel very Elixir, but that’s to be expected.

pier25 1y ago
> I’ve used both the non official libraries and they work fine Maybe fine today but what about 5 years from now? Can you say, with any degree of confidence, if these these libraries are going to be properly maintained in the future? No, you cannot.
- techpression 1y ago
  Goes for every library out there though. Official or not.
  - pier25 1y ago
    Not really. You can be much more confident the official AWS SDK will be available 5 or even 10 years from now.

chrismccord 1y ago

Meanwhile I am a happy user of :ex_aws or :req_s3 which has done everything I need it to do. Object ops, iam policies, etc. A dependable S3 client has been there for years. The elixir core team doesn't need to maintain it. ReqS3 is one of my favorite things to use: https://hexdocs.pm/req_s3/readme.html https://hexdocs.pm/req_s3/readme.html

pier25 1y ago
Maybe you can guarantee Phoenix will be maintained 5-10 years from now but that's really not the case for some random library on Github. If you look around you'll see this kind of stuff is really one of the biggest blockers for Elxir and Phoenix. Especially for something as fundamental as cloud storage.

4b11b4 1y ago

Not sure what you're talking about..