5 ms·

I’m not sure neoliberal and “lefty” are anywhere near synonyms either.

PaulHoule 1y ago
They aren't. But I find something amusing that The Economist (which I subscribe to) is frequently considered left-leaning https://www.allsides.com/news-source/economist https://www.allsides.com/news-source/economist whereas I see it what the center-right would be if we had a healthy media/political environment.
- kristjansson 1y ago
  Impugns the source(s) trying to place them on the left-right axis more than anything.
- tekla 1y ago
  They are classical liberal, which is impossible to place in the current US Left-Right spectrum because politics have become even dumber than previously thought possible
  - PaulHoule 1y ago
    … politics aren’t just dumb in the US. The Economist is politically homeless these days and has little faith in Labor, Tories or Lib Dems.
- billfor 1y ago
  Count how many times they use hard-left vs hard-right, or how many times they use hard-right vs any other kind of right.
turnsout 1y ago
It's confusing, but "liberal" and "neoliberal" are in fact antonyms.
- PaulHoule 1y ago
  Not really. Ever seen a "liberal" liberate or a "conservative" conserve? The term got its current usage when FDR came in because at that time it was a matter of "burn it all down" (real socialism) vs "fix the private property system around the margins". See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classical_liberalism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classical_liberalism
  - gsf_emergency_2 1y ago
    I think by liberal he meant the Edwardian liberal. It's the predominant meaning of that label in the US
- recursive 1y ago
  Based on this comment tree, I'm tempted to believe neither of them mean anything. Or at least very few people are aware of whatever real definition they have. But many people have opinions about it.
  - tekla 1y ago
    They do mean things, but most who toss the words around only use it to mean "thing that I don't like"
  - rsynnott 1y ago
    > Or at least very few people are aware of whatever real definition they have I mean, like many things, the meaning of 'liberal' has shifted over the last few centuries, and always differed somewhat between regions anyway. Words in English mean what people use them to mean.
rsynnott 1y ago
They're not _that_ far off being antonyms, really; neoliberalism certainly shares distant origins with the left, but that's about as far as it goes.

They aren't. But I find something amusing that The Economist (which I subscribe to) is frequently considered left-leaning https://www.allsides.com/news-source/economist https://www.allsides.com/news-source/economist whereas I see it what the center-right would be if we had a healthy media/political environment.

kristjansson 1y ago
Impugns the source(s) trying to place them on the left-right axis more than anything.
tekla 1y ago
They are classical liberal, which is impossible to place in the current US Left-Right spectrum because politics have become even dumber than previously thought possible
- PaulHoule 1y ago
  … politics aren’t just dumb in the US. The Economist is politically homeless these days and has little faith in Labor, Tories or Lib Dems.
billfor 1y ago
Count how many times they use hard-left vs hard-right, or how many times they use hard-right vs any other kind of right.

turnsout 1y ago

It's confusing, but "liberal" and "neoliberal" are in fact antonyms.

PaulHoule 1y ago
Not really. Ever seen a "liberal" liberate or a "conservative" conserve? The term got its current usage when FDR came in because at that time it was a matter of "burn it all down" (real socialism) vs "fix the private property system around the margins". See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classical_liberalism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classical_liberalism
- gsf_emergency_2 1y ago
  I think by liberal he meant the Edwardian liberal. It's the predominant meaning of that label in the US
recursive 1y ago
Based on this comment tree, I'm tempted to believe neither of them mean anything. Or at least very few people are aware of whatever real definition they have. But many people have opinions about it.
- tekla 1y ago
  They do mean things, but most who toss the words around only use it to mean "thing that I don't like"
- rsynnott 1y ago
  > Or at least very few people are aware of whatever real definition they have I mean, like many things, the meaning of 'liberal' has shifted over the last few centuries, and always differed somewhat between regions anyway. Words in English mean what people use them to mean.

rsynnott 1y ago

They're not _that_ far off being antonyms, really; neoliberalism certainly shares distant origins with the left, but that's about as far as it goes.