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Is any of it affordable for the median household income in your area? If so, that’s great!

by bradfa 1y ago

dzhiurgis 1y ago
New housing doesn't have to be affordable for everyone. Median income goes towards old housing.
- willis936 1y ago
  When more people are being priced out of a market than new housing units are added, then yeah they do need to be cheaper to make housing more available. The net result is more stratification, not less. Ask anyone how to make cheap housing though. No one has a convincing answer. I'm convinced that it's the right question.
  - rvnx 1y ago
    Default on U.S. debt. A U.S. default would spike interest rates, crash bond markets, trigger a credit freeze, and destroy consumer confidence. Mortgages would become unaffordable. Mass foreclosures and job losses would crush demand. Asset fire sales would follow. Housing prices would collapse. This would also reshuffle assets, so speculators and highly leveraged people would be punished instead of being rewarded. It will also cleanup the situation for future generations so kids won't have to be under extreme debt to pay back in some way to government, because the older people lived above their means.
    - willis936 1y ago
      That's how you make existing housing cheap. That's not how you make new housing cheap. We still have a shortage.
      - rvnx 1y ago
        Myeah, not ideal, by logic it should make future housing even more expensive, as the USD weakens, so importing materials get more expensive.
      - TimPC 1y ago
        The dilemma is you can’t make new housing cheap because if the price falls too much it becomes unprofitable to build and you don’t get new supply. My city is currently facing this where the interest rate hikes, build tax hikes and falling prices have created a perfect storm of vastly reduced housing starts.
        willis936 1y ago
        >if the price falls too much it becomes unprofitable to build and you don’t get new supply This is saying "building is expensive because building is expensive". Why is it expensive and how do we address it to make it cheaper?
        sokoloff 1y ago
        There’s not a lot of confusion about how to build cheaper. Build less and worse per unit. Share foundations, roofs, walls, and common areas. Build less square footage per unit. Build less fancy per square foot (cheaper kitchens and baths). Use all standard materials and finishes. Install low-end appliances and HVAC. Everything cookie-cutter; no per-unit changes. Use less land per unit (and maybe less expensive land overall). Have no private outdoor space (or just a tiny balcony). That’s not well aligned to how to maximize profits from a given unit though (fairly obviously and by intentional design).
        fragmede 1y ago
        just subsidize it. raise taxes on people making for than, say, $3 million a year, and give that money to construction companies to build homes. (subject to strict oversight that the money actually be used to build affordable homes)
        TimPC 1y ago
        Parts of this do align well with how to maximize profits. Shared walls, progressively smaller units over time and removing balconies have been the story of condo buildings over the last generation. The area that doesn’t line up is the low end apartment fixtures. It turns out people will pay $15k for $10k better of appliances and countertops.
  - fastball 1y ago
    Housing becomes cheaper when supply outstrips demand. That is really all there is to it. If there is induced demand due to new housing being built, you just need... more housing.
- jimbob45 1y ago
  This does appear to be an application of Goodhart’s Law (when a measure becomes a target, it ceases to be a good measure). Affordable housing is neat but it implicitly encourages infinite housing be built and does nothing to address employment and crazy down payment requirements (especially for those who could otherwise pay the mortgage!).
smcin 1y ago
Depends if you find the following prices affordable, for TN salaries. Here's one blog I found [0]; seems Nashville has a slight glut at the high-end: > Nashville home prices went up in May 2025, but not by much compared to last year. > Average sale price $853.8K; median price stayed flat at $613K. > But here's what's interesting: sellers had to drop their asking prices more than before. The average list price was $1.012 million, but homes actually sold for about $158K less than that... > More Homes Available for Buyers: Active inventory jumped +29% compared to last year. > Total inventory (including homes under contract) increased +16% > Sales Activity Slowing Down -18% [0]: https://www.nashvillesmls.com/blog/nashville-housing-market-update.html https://www.nashvillesmls.com/blog/nashville-housing-market-...
_petronius 1y ago
Affordable housing is good, but building of housing of all types lowers housing prices for everyone[0]. Build it all! [0]: https://research.upjohn.org/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1314&context=reports#:~:text=Recent%20studies%20show%20that%20building,%2D%20or%20lower%2Dincome%20families. https://research.upjohn.org/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1314...

Is any of it affordable for the median household income in your area? If so, that’s great!

by bradfa 1y ago

Is any of it affordable for the median household income in your area? If so, that’s great!

dzhiurgis 1y ago

New housing doesn't have to be affordable for everyone. Median income goes towards old housing.

willis936 1y ago
When more people are being priced out of a market than new housing units are added, then yeah they do need to be cheaper to make housing more available. The net result is more stratification, not less. Ask anyone how to make cheap housing though. No one has a convincing answer. I'm convinced that it's the right question.
- rvnx 1y ago
  Default on U.S. debt. A U.S. default would spike interest rates, crash bond markets, trigger a credit freeze, and destroy consumer confidence. Mortgages would become unaffordable. Mass foreclosures and job losses would crush demand. Asset fire sales would follow. Housing prices would collapse. This would also reshuffle assets, so speculators and highly leveraged people would be punished instead of being rewarded. It will also cleanup the situation for future generations so kids won't have to be under extreme debt to pay back in some way to government, because the older people lived above their means.
  - willis936 1y ago
    That's how you make existing housing cheap. That's not how you make new housing cheap. We still have a shortage.
    - rvnx 1y ago
      Myeah, not ideal, by logic it should make future housing even more expensive, as the USD weakens, so importing materials get more expensive.
    - TimPC 1y ago
      The dilemma is you can’t make new housing cheap because if the price falls too much it becomes unprofitable to build and you don’t get new supply. My city is currently facing this where the interest rate hikes, build tax hikes and falling prices have created a perfect storm of vastly reduced housing starts.
      - willis936 1y ago
        >if the price falls too much it becomes unprofitable to build and you don’t get new supply This is saying "building is expensive because building is expensive". Why is it expensive and how do we address it to make it cheaper?
        sokoloff 1y ago
        There’s not a lot of confusion about how to build cheaper. Build less and worse per unit. Share foundations, roofs, walls, and common areas. Build less square footage per unit. Build less fancy per square foot (cheaper kitchens and baths). Use all standard materials and finishes. Install low-end appliances and HVAC. Everything cookie-cutter; no per-unit changes. Use less land per unit (and maybe less expensive land overall). Have no private outdoor space (or just a tiny balcony). That’s not well aligned to how to maximize profits from a given unit though (fairly obviously and by intentional design).
        fragmede 1y ago
        just subsidize it. raise taxes on people making for than, say, $3 million a year, and give that money to construction companies to build homes. (subject to strict oversight that the money actually be used to build affordable homes)
        TimPC 1y ago
        Parts of this do align well with how to maximize profits. Shared walls, progressively smaller units over time and removing balconies have been the story of condo buildings over the last generation. The area that doesn’t line up is the low end apartment fixtures. It turns out people will pay $15k for $10k better of appliances and countertops.
- fastball 1y ago
  Housing becomes cheaper when supply outstrips demand. That is really all there is to it. If there is induced demand due to new housing being built, you just need... more housing.
jimbob45 1y ago
This does appear to be an application of Goodhart’s Law (when a measure becomes a target, it ceases to be a good measure). Affordable housing is neat but it implicitly encourages infinite housing be built and does nothing to address employment and crazy down payment requirements (especially for those who could otherwise pay the mortgage!).

smcin 1y ago

Depends if you find the following prices affordable, for TN salaries. Here's one blog I found [0]; seems Nashville has a slight glut at the high-end: > Nashville home prices went up in May 2025, but not by much compared to last year. > Average sale price $853.8K; median price stayed flat at $613K. > But here's what's interesting: sellers had to drop their asking prices more than before. The average list price was $1.012 million, but homes actually sold for about $158K less than that... > More Homes Available for Buyers: Active inventory jumped +29% compared to last year. > Total inventory (including homes under contract) increased +16% > Sales Activity Slowing Down -18% [0]: https://www.nashvillesmls.com/blog/nashville-housing-market-update.html https://www.nashvillesmls.com/blog/nashville-housing-market-...

_petronius 1y ago

Affordable housing is good, but building of housing of all types lowers housing prices for everyone[0]. Build it all! [0]: https://research.upjohn.org/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1314&context=reports#:~:text=Recent%20studies%20show%20that%20building,%2D%20or%20lower%2Dincome%20families. https://research.upjohn.org/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1314...