4 ms·

Lol ban me I'll just make another account (and I know you guys think you have just the best fingerprinting tech but newsflash you do not :)

tomhow 1y ago
Please quit this pointless war. Yes, anyone who is banned can create a new account. That's always been the case and we don't even try to prevent it. We just keep upholding the guidelines regardless. Consider that maybe it's not the big win you think it is, to be one of the few people making an effort to use a website in defiant opposition to its intended use, when it's only a place people want to frequent because others put their efforts into making it function well.
- almostgotcaught 1y ago
  [flagged]
  - tomhow 1y ago
    > you let comments that are blatant dog whistles stand and you respond to those that break rules of decorum Please include links here so we can all see whether your claims are on solid ground rather than an attempt to deflect from your own conduct.
  - tomhow 1y ago
    Of those comments, one of them would be killed by now if you'd just used the site's functionality as intended and flagged it. Without expertise on the topic (and I am Australian, I don't have deep expertise on these topics, and it doesn't seem like other readers do either), the merit of those comments seem like a question of historical accuracy. If there's a way in which the content of these comments breach the guidelines (and no, the guidelines don't permit people to, say, support fascism or genocide as long as they're polite about it as it's been facetiously put in the past; anything that is unkind or abusive or oppressive to other people is against the guidelines here), you or anyone can explain that in a reply or an email to us. We understand that sometimes comments break the guidelines in ways that aren't obvious at face value (as you put it "dog whistles"), and in these cases people can, point this out in comments or emails to us. Positive contributors to HN do this all the time. Nobody has done that in this case, but you're welcome to do so, now or in any other similar situation. Edit: I was reflecting as I took a walk that this discussion is almost a mirror image of one I had about a week ago with a user who seems to be on the other side of the political spectrum. Like you, their belief was that HN's discourse and moderation is biased against their political persuasion, and that this entitles them to disregard the guidelines and engage in battle against what they perceive as malevolent actors on the site. We've seen this effect forever here: the more strongly someone is focused on a particular ideological issue, the more keenly they notice anything that breaches their sensibilities about that topic. Dang has written about it and cited examples of it many times over the years: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26148870 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26148870 https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&query=by%3Adang%20notice%20dislike&sort=byDate&type=comment https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que... And in this subthread just three months ago, a banned user insisting that there's a “hard liberal-progressive tilt to comments and post flagging”: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43136198 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43136198 The truth is we don't – and can't moderate in support of any particular ideological agenda. We just don't have time to pore through all the comments and manoeuvre things in a way that pushes things one way or another. All we can do is respond to the bad stuff we see, which we can only do if people use the site's feedback mechanisms to alert us to things that need our intervention.
    - almostgotcaught 1y ago
      > All we can do is respond to the bad stuff we see, which we can only do if people use the site's feedback mechanisms to alert us to things that need our intervention. .... > Of those comments, one of them would be killed by now if you'd just used the site's functionality as intended and flagged it. Am I taking crazy pills? I directly linked you to both comments, you concede one of them crossed a line, and yet this morning I wake up and they're both still live simply because I didn't hit a specific button? And no I'm not gonna hit the button. Because my point isn't actually about political bias or whatever - it's that you people are weirdo hall monitors that tone police instead of actually encourage discourse (as I've said many times now in this thread, despite your claims that I'm complaining about bias).
      - tomhow 1y ago
        It's not about tone it's about substance. When your comments are all laced with indignation, the substance is lost. I'm actually pleading with you to engage in discourse here. I'm telling you that I (and, evidently, many others in this community), aren't expert enough in this specific topic to see how these comments are so egregious (rather than just wrong, which is not a guidelines breach). I did some enquiries of my own about the topics, and sure, I picked up some further details. But that's not enough to me to unilaterally kill these comments, and after all that's not the point. You're expecting us to moderate a particular way about topics you have particular knowledge about and particularly strong feelings about. That's not something we can ever do, no matter the topic or the side. This is a perfect example of why it matters to optimise for substance over indignation. You could simply respond with opposing evidence, and educate other readers, me included. That's what we most want here.
        almostgotcaught 1y ago
        > You're expecting us to moderate a particular way about topics you have particular knowledge about and particularly strong feelings about. That's not something we can ever do, no matter the topic or the side. This is a perfect example of why it matters to optimise for substance over indignation. This is such a weird false-dichotomy you're portraying. No one is expecting you to weigh in on arcane/abstruse things. This is about a current holiday in America that commemorates freeing of slaves ~150 years ago, not slavery in the Mycenaean civilization of 1100BCE. You said you're not American - ok then maybe you should've stayed out of the thread entirely? But since you didn't, then you should realize it is your responsibility to educate yourself. Like just plain and simple: can you imagine a police officer policing a foreign people being unaware of their history/culture/etc? Like can you imagine the same thread about mistreatment of aboriginals in AU - would you similarly blithely claim ignorance? Indifference?
  - bobxmax 1y ago
    Neither of those comments are inaccurate. It's deeply unhelpful to try and discuss something as complicated as slavery if you insist on whitewashing it as a simple, binary case of good and bad.
    - almostgotcaught 1y ago
      [flagged]
      - bobxmax 1y ago
        > jesus christ you people are so thick: You think this comment was flagged because of sarcasm? lol
        almostgotcaught 1y ago
        [flagged]
        bobxmax 1y ago
        Do you find pleasure in being a random angsty troll deep in day old HN threads lol
        tomhow 1y ago
        Can we all just stop this please? It's already gone on too long, me included.

tomhow 1y ago

Please quit this pointless war. Yes, anyone who is banned can create a new account. That's always been the case and we don't even try to prevent it. We just keep upholding the guidelines regardless. Consider that maybe it's not the big win you think it is, to be one of the few people making an effort to use a website in defiant opposition to its intended use, when it's only a place people want to frequent because others put their efforts into making it function well.

almostgotcaught 1y ago
[flagged]
- tomhow 1y ago
  > you let comments that are blatant dog whistles stand and you respond to those that break rules of decorum Please include links here so we can all see whether your claims are on solid ground rather than an attempt to deflect from your own conduct.
- tomhow 1y ago
  Of those comments, one of them would be killed by now if you'd just used the site's functionality as intended and flagged it. Without expertise on the topic (and I am Australian, I don't have deep expertise on these topics, and it doesn't seem like other readers do either), the merit of those comments seem like a question of historical accuracy. If there's a way in which the content of these comments breach the guidelines (and no, the guidelines don't permit people to, say, support fascism or genocide as long as they're polite about it as it's been facetiously put in the past; anything that is unkind or abusive or oppressive to other people is against the guidelines here), you or anyone can explain that in a reply or an email to us. We understand that sometimes comments break the guidelines in ways that aren't obvious at face value (as you put it "dog whistles"), and in these cases people can, point this out in comments or emails to us. Positive contributors to HN do this all the time. Nobody has done that in this case, but you're welcome to do so, now or in any other similar situation. Edit: I was reflecting as I took a walk that this discussion is almost a mirror image of one I had about a week ago with a user who seems to be on the other side of the political spectrum. Like you, their belief was that HN's discourse and moderation is biased against their political persuasion, and that this entitles them to disregard the guidelines and engage in battle against what they perceive as malevolent actors on the site. We've seen this effect forever here: the more strongly someone is focused on a particular ideological issue, the more keenly they notice anything that breaches their sensibilities about that topic. Dang has written about it and cited examples of it many times over the years: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26148870 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26148870 https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&query=by%3Adang%20notice%20dislike&sort=byDate&type=comment https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que... And in this subthread just three months ago, a banned user insisting that there's a “hard liberal-progressive tilt to comments and post flagging”: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43136198 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43136198 The truth is we don't – and can't moderate in support of any particular ideological agenda. We just don't have time to pore through all the comments and manoeuvre things in a way that pushes things one way or another. All we can do is respond to the bad stuff we see, which we can only do if people use the site's feedback mechanisms to alert us to things that need our intervention.
  - almostgotcaught 1y ago
    > All we can do is respond to the bad stuff we see, which we can only do if people use the site's feedback mechanisms to alert us to things that need our intervention. .... > Of those comments, one of them would be killed by now if you'd just used the site's functionality as intended and flagged it. Am I taking crazy pills? I directly linked you to both comments, you concede one of them crossed a line, and yet this morning I wake up and they're both still live simply because I didn't hit a specific button? And no I'm not gonna hit the button. Because my point isn't actually about political bias or whatever - it's that you people are weirdo hall monitors that tone police instead of actually encourage discourse (as I've said many times now in this thread, despite your claims that I'm complaining about bias).
    - tomhow 1y ago
      It's not about tone it's about substance. When your comments are all laced with indignation, the substance is lost. I'm actually pleading with you to engage in discourse here. I'm telling you that I (and, evidently, many others in this community), aren't expert enough in this specific topic to see how these comments are so egregious (rather than just wrong, which is not a guidelines breach). I did some enquiries of my own about the topics, and sure, I picked up some further details. But that's not enough to me to unilaterally kill these comments, and after all that's not the point. You're expecting us to moderate a particular way about topics you have particular knowledge about and particularly strong feelings about. That's not something we can ever do, no matter the topic or the side. This is a perfect example of why it matters to optimise for substance over indignation. You could simply respond with opposing evidence, and educate other readers, me included. That's what we most want here.
      - almostgotcaught 1y ago
        > You're expecting us to moderate a particular way about topics you have particular knowledge about and particularly strong feelings about. That's not something we can ever do, no matter the topic or the side. This is a perfect example of why it matters to optimise for substance over indignation. This is such a weird false-dichotomy you're portraying. No one is expecting you to weigh in on arcane/abstruse things. This is about a current holiday in America that commemorates freeing of slaves ~150 years ago, not slavery in the Mycenaean civilization of 1100BCE. You said you're not American - ok then maybe you should've stayed out of the thread entirely? But since you didn't, then you should realize it is your responsibility to educate yourself. Like just plain and simple: can you imagine a police officer policing a foreign people being unaware of their history/culture/etc? Like can you imagine the same thread about mistreatment of aboriginals in AU - would you similarly blithely claim ignorance? Indifference?
- bobxmax 1y ago
  Neither of those comments are inaccurate. It's deeply unhelpful to try and discuss something as complicated as slavery if you insist on whitewashing it as a simple, binary case of good and bad.
  - almostgotcaught 1y ago
    [flagged]
    - bobxmax 1y ago
      > jesus christ you people are so thick: You think this comment was flagged because of sarcasm? lol
      - almostgotcaught 1y ago
        [flagged]
        bobxmax 1y ago
        Do you find pleasure in being a random angsty troll deep in day old HN threads lol
        tomhow 1y ago
        Can we all just stop this please? It's already gone on too long, me included.