26 ms·

If you're using k8s as a service where you've outsourced all of the cluster maintenance (from any of the cloud vendors), which part due you see as super complex

by jeswin 1y ago

If you're using k8s as a service where you've outsourced all of the cluster maintenance (from any of the cloud vendors), which part due you see as super complex? The configuration and specs are vast, but you might only need to know a very small subset of it to put services into production. You can deploy to k8s with configuration that's just a little more complex than docker-compose. Having said that, perhaps for a majority of apps even that "a little more" is unnecessary - and docker-compose was what the long tail actually wanted. That docker-compose didn't get sustained traction is unfortunate.

motorest 1y ago
> If you're using k8s as a service where you've outsourced all of the cluster maintenance (from any of the cloud vendors), which part due you see as super complex? This point bears repeating. OP's opinion and baseless assertions contrast with reality. Even with COTS hardware nowadays we have Kubernetes distributions which are trivial to setup and run, to the point that they only require a package being installed to get a node running, and running a single command to register the newly provisioned node in a cluster. I wonder what's OP's first-hand experience with Kubernetes.
- 15155 1y ago
  When Kubernetes was in its infancy, it was quite difficult to do the PKI and etcd setup required to run a cluster - and managed services didn't exist. Now, in every thread, people replay arguments from close to a decade ago that reflect conditions 90% of companies wouldn't face today.
  - eddythompson80 1y ago
    Yeah, it's as if someone is saying they can't run linux because compiling takes forever, dealing with header files and dependencies is a pain, plus I use bluetooth headphones.
  - motorest 1y ago
    > When Kubernetes was in its infancy, it was quite difficult to do the PKI and etcd setup required to run a cluster - and managed services didn't exist. I agree, but it's important to stress the fact that things like etcd are only a pivotal component if you're putting together an ad-hoc cluster of unreliable nodes. Let that sink in. Kubernetes is a distributed system designed for high reliability, and depends on consensus algorithms to self-heal. That's a plausible scenario if you're running a cluster of cheap unreliable COTS hardware. Is that what most people use? Absolutely not.
    - DasIch 1y ago
      All hardware is unreliable and it's only a question of scale whether the probability of failure gets high enough that you need self-healing.
      - motorest 1y ago
        > All hardware is unreliable (...) The whole point is that none of the main cloud providers runs containers directly on bare metal servers, and even their own VPS are resilient to their own hardware failures. Then there's the whole debate on whether it's a good idea to put together a Kubernetes cluster running on, say, EC2 instances.

by jeswin 1y ago

motorest 1y ago

> If you're using k8s as a service where you've outsourced all of the cluster maintenance (from any of the cloud vendors), which part due you see as super complex? This point bears repeating. OP's opinion and baseless assertions contrast with reality. Even with COTS hardware nowadays we have Kubernetes distributions which are trivial to setup and run, to the point that they only require a package being installed to get a node running, and running a single command to register the newly provisioned node in a cluster. I wonder what's OP's first-hand experience with Kubernetes.

15155 1y ago
When Kubernetes was in its infancy, it was quite difficult to do the PKI and etcd setup required to run a cluster - and managed services didn't exist. Now, in every thread, people replay arguments from close to a decade ago that reflect conditions 90% of companies wouldn't face today.
- eddythompson80 1y ago
  Yeah, it's as if someone is saying they can't run linux because compiling takes forever, dealing with header files and dependencies is a pain, plus I use bluetooth headphones.
- motorest 1y ago
  > When Kubernetes was in its infancy, it was quite difficult to do the PKI and etcd setup required to run a cluster - and managed services didn't exist. I agree, but it's important to stress the fact that things like etcd are only a pivotal component if you're putting together an ad-hoc cluster of unreliable nodes. Let that sink in. Kubernetes is a distributed system designed for high reliability, and depends on consensus algorithms to self-heal. That's a plausible scenario if you're running a cluster of cheap unreliable COTS hardware. Is that what most people use? Absolutely not.
  - DasIch 1y ago
    All hardware is unreliable and it's only a question of scale whether the probability of failure gets high enough that you need self-healing.
    - motorest 1y ago
      > All hardware is unreliable (...) The whole point is that none of the main cloud providers runs containers directly on bare metal servers, and even their own VPS are resilient to their own hardware failures. Then there's the whole debate on whether it's a good idea to put together a Kubernetes cluster running on, say, EC2 instances.