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> Nah, if your freespeech involves treason and rebellion you no longer have rights Do that and you can guarantee that it’ll be used against you. I abhor people

by ok_dad 1y ago

> Nah, if your freespeech involves treason and rebellion you no longer have rights Do that and you can guarantee that it’ll be used against you. I abhor people who fly those flags, I’ll personally stomp their faces, but the government shouldn’t be allowed to stop them or else your run into the issue of what treasonous speech is. I firmly believe the people (society in general) should hold all of the power when it comes to policing speech.

notepad0x90 1y ago
Like I said, this isn't arbitrary, if I start flying the flags of my country's enemies, then like any other law it should apply to me. Who gets to decide who the enemy is? The democratically elected legislators and officials. Plenty of countries with better free-speech and free-press protections than the US ban things like this, holocaust denial, etc... it isn't a slippery slope. Either you have faith in democracy or you don't.
- ghushn3 1y ago
  Right now, the 'enemies' of the democratically elected leaders are Democrats and Socialists. You think jail time for being a member of the DSA is reasonable? That's democracy working as intended? (That said, the US is not a democracy, and it's really important to remember that, because we do value some votes more highly than others and put significant barriers in place to prevent everyone from voting.) That's not a slippery slope, the admin is on the record saying that socialists are their enemies. I don't want to give them the power to go after anyone who might be a socialist. Especially when they are carting people off to death camps in foreign countries.
  - notepad0x90 1y ago
    Sorry for ignorance but I have no idea what the DSA is. That said, you hit it on the nail when you said the US isn't a democracy. that's only half way true but let's fix that! If the we're not a democracy then free speech still means nothing either way. US citizens are being abducted and disappeared in broad daylight, what free speech do you have when that can happen to you? But if democracy is working right, and that is the premise I made my original statement under, and we owe allegiance to our country than explicit and outright betrayal of your country isn't free speech. it is exactly what it is and should be treated as such. Anything short of that falls under the half-measure bucket I mentioned earlier. It is nursing a festering wound until it causes sepsis and kills the whole body. I would even argue that the loss of democracy you're talking about has to do with the culture of half-measures. Protests that affect or risk nothing, people being outraged but not acting on it (voting or more). Tolerating nazis under "free speech" is why there are nazis running the country right now. These people should have been buried under prisons a long time ago.
    - ghushn3 1y ago
      Oh, sorry, DSA is the "Democratic Socialists of America" -- a left of Democrats group that mostly focuses on advancing Social Democrat and Democratic Socialist causes (like housing and healthcare for all).

by ok_dad 1y ago

notepad0x90 1y ago

Like I said, this isn't arbitrary, if I start flying the flags of my country's enemies, then like any other law it should apply to me. Who gets to decide who the enemy is? The democratically elected legislators and officials. Plenty of countries with better free-speech and free-press protections than the US ban things like this, holocaust denial, etc... it isn't a slippery slope. Either you have faith in democracy or you don't.

ghushn3 1y ago
Right now, the 'enemies' of the democratically elected leaders are Democrats and Socialists. You think jail time for being a member of the DSA is reasonable? That's democracy working as intended? (That said, the US is not a democracy, and it's really important to remember that, because we do value some votes more highly than others and put significant barriers in place to prevent everyone from voting.) That's not a slippery slope, the admin is on the record saying that socialists are their enemies. I don't want to give them the power to go after anyone who might be a socialist. Especially when they are carting people off to death camps in foreign countries.
- notepad0x90 1y ago
  Sorry for ignorance but I have no idea what the DSA is. That said, you hit it on the nail when you said the US isn't a democracy. that's only half way true but let's fix that! If the we're not a democracy then free speech still means nothing either way. US citizens are being abducted and disappeared in broad daylight, what free speech do you have when that can happen to you? But if democracy is working right, and that is the premise I made my original statement under, and we owe allegiance to our country than explicit and outright betrayal of your country isn't free speech. it is exactly what it is and should be treated as such. Anything short of that falls under the half-measure bucket I mentioned earlier. It is nursing a festering wound until it causes sepsis and kills the whole body. I would even argue that the loss of democracy you're talking about has to do with the culture of half-measures. Protests that affect or risk nothing, people being outraged but not acting on it (voting or more). Tolerating nazis under "free speech" is why there are nazis running the country right now. These people should have been buried under prisons a long time ago.
  - ghushn3 1y ago
    Oh, sorry, DSA is the "Democratic Socialists of America" -- a left of Democrats group that mostly focuses on advancing Social Democrat and Democratic Socialist causes (like housing and healthcare for all).