4 ms·

Liberux Nexx: An interview with Liberux about their made-in-EU OSHW Linux Phone

41 points by Bogdanp 1y ago

unwind 1y ago
Very cool, didn't know about this! Their website [1] has lots of more details of course, as well as pictures (or renders, not sure) of the planned products. I was bordering on being interested, since it would be cool to feel that the phone is fun/interesting again, but then I realized that in real life I'm way too tied to various proprietary (Android, in my case) apps since pretty much everything that could be a web site has been made into an app. :| Went back to check since I had a thought, and they do state that they will include a "jailed Android OS" which I guess helps, but that also kinda removes the free/open/clean feeling associated with having a Linux-based phone. Hm. I guess I'm just complaining, at this point. Sorry. :) [1]: https://liberux.net/#specs https://liberux.net/#specs
soco 1y ago
For me it's all in the camera specs and results. I can't wait to hear about that!
ranguna 1y ago
If this is going to be Linux phone, then a good use case would be to use it on desktop mode with an external monitor. They mention this on their website but they are planning on doing it with a convuluted wireless device? Why not simply usb C with displayport alt mode? I could just stick a dongle in there and connect all my peripherals. It's not new technology, that's what I do with my 3 year old phone.
- ranguna 1y ago
  Taken directly from the interview: > Does one (or both) of the USB-C ports support DisplayPort Alt Mode, so that I can plug into a display without carrying accessories? > > Yes, at least one of the ports will provide direct DisplayPort output, allowing you to use the Nexx as a desktop without additional docks. So indeed, it's going to have displayport! I'm guessing their wireless dock is optional.
namedthing0 1y ago
This is the only way to escape the suffocating stranglehold of big american tech.It is high time for tech made for users, instead of tech for stockholders with no morals at all.
a2128 1y ago
I've backed a different EU alt-hardware project before and it's always more tricky to make a product than it seems. The other project already had finalized most of the design (which took years of work prior to crowdfunding), had multiple assembled prototypes, and were promising shipping in 6 months. It turned out to take 2 to 3 years between all the component delays, negotiating with manufacturers, getting production lines set up, hardware certification, fixing design flaws, yelling at manufacturers for doing something wrong. Some of these delays probably could've been avoidable but there truly seemed to be surprises every step of the way. These people seem to have not much more than a dev board that talks to a PC, and are promising to go from that to shipping fully assembled phones in 1 year. It would truly be amazing to see but I really don't think that's a realistic amount of time
- nairboon 1y ago
  Which project was this?
  - rajaravivarma_r 1y ago
    Not the author of parent comment, but from the description it looks like it is Jolla Tablet, which was crowdfunded and the delivery got delayed. After an year or so, some of the funders go the tablet. While, some of us got half a refund.
- pabs3 1y ago
  I think OpenMoko was like that too, apart from the crowdfunding.
jchw 1y ago
Interesting specs. Looks like it's based on the RK3588S. In terms of CPU grunt that's a fairly good upgrade over the RK3399S used in the Pinephone Pro, ~3x more performance in single core according to Passmark[1]. For the GPU in the RK3588, there is a Mali-G610 MP4, which at least on paper looks pretty promising. Notebookcheck shows it only -35% of the Apple A14 Bionic[2]. For comparison, the Mali-T860 MP2 in the RK3399S used by the Pinephone Pro seems rather anemic by today's standards[3]. The other specs also look fairly good. 32 GiB of modular(!) RAM, two decent resolution camera sensors, a fingerprint sensor, a decently large battery, a modern modem... It stands to reason that if they really do manage to get mainline Linux working well on this, while it won't be cutting edge by smartphone standards, it really ought to be one of the first mainline Linux phones where the performance is actually decent. I'm cautiously optimistic. Looking at the postmarketOS compatibility list, few phones on the market have good modem support and fewer have working camera (literally no device has managed to get a "Y" in camera!) which makes me wonder if the fairly modern Qualcomm modem and fairly decent looking camera sensors they chose can really actually work under mainline Linux and a fairly stock userland. If it does, then damn. We're possibly entering peak "viable Linux phone" territory here. [1]: https://www.cpubenchmark.net/compare/4906vs3987/Rockchip-RK3588-vs-Rockchip-RK3399 https://www.cpubenchmark.net/compare/4906vs3987/Rockchip-RK3... [2]: https://www.notebookcheck.net/ARM-Mali-G610-MP4-Benchmarks-and-Specs.814022.0.html https://www.notebookcheck.net/ARM-Mali-G610-MP4-Benchmarks-a... [3]: https://www.notebookcheck.net/ARM-Mali-T860-MP2-Benchmarks-and-Specs.163318.0.html https://www.notebookcheck.net/ARM-Mali-T860-MP2-Benchmarks-a...
anonymousiam 1y ago
I've been looking at Linux phone options for a while now. This one is crowd funded, so I'm waiting to see if it actually materializes. Some things that buyers might want to consider: Supply Chain Security - Do you trust the manufacturer? What about their suppliers? What about their government? Pretty much every government in the world has mandated access to mobile phone activities, so choose which government you want to have this access. Spain is part of the EU, so you get the bonus of both their national government, and the EU having full access to your private communications under their rules for doing so.
- einpoklum 1y ago
  > Do you trust the manufacturer? Difficult, unless they've already manufactured a phone before, that I know very well. And on the other hand, if they're bing and have manufactured things before - some might be good and other bad. e.g. do you trust Samsung or Xiaomi for example? Do you trust Dell or Asus or Lenovo for laptops? No general answer really. Other than the fact that, at the bottom line, capitalist corporations are more committed to generating profit for the owners than benefit for the users/customers, and in that sense trust is inherently limited. > What about their suppliers? How would users know about the suppliers, or know whether suppliers are trustworthy? Also, same point as above.
- Maken 1y ago
  I trust much more anything and anybody EU-based to protect my privacy than those based in almost any other country. For starters, in Spain communications' privacy is an explicit constitutional right. And at the EU level, while there is no explicit constitution, all the countries are bound by the ECHR and its court on this matter. It's not perfect but it's way better than countries that either have no privacy laws or explicitly request companies to allow unlimited government access to their users' data.
  - anonymousiam 1y ago
    Privacy from data collection by companies is one thing, but privacy from government surveillance is another. Why do you suppose France is holding Pavel Durov? https://reclaimthenet.org/telegram-founder-pavel-durov-slams-eu-censorship-digital-services-act https://reclaimthenet.org/telegram-founder-pavel-durov-slams...
einpoklum 1y ago
Well, I would say that even if you're wary/lack enthusiasm about this particular phone - donate a few EUR towards it. At best - the project gets off the ground thanks to many small funders. At worst - you lost 10 EUR or whatever, that you can think of as charity for people working on something neat, and "tuition fees" for other projects later on.
summm 1y ago
Previous discussions: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42803559 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42803559 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42821868 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42821868
abdhass 1y ago
In terms of security, privacy and anonymity, is the OS much different than grapheneOS?
- pabs3 1y ago
  Sounds like the OS will be Debian based, so probably not as good as grapheneOS in those terms. https://wiki.debian.org/PrivacyIssues https://wiki.debian.org/PrivacyIssues
ktosobcy 1y ago
Just the other day I was actually talking with a colleague about actually missing proper open phone outside of the abysmal duopoly (android/ios) and voilà, this popped up. I'm kinda tempted to get one just to support the concept and EU-based initiative. I just hate that our mobile market is locked-in... in my case the most annoying thing would be banking :/
- Vinnl 1y ago
  There are a couple of other projects, but I think the one most similar to this one that is already shipping is the FuriPhone, in case you want one right now: https://furilabs.com https://furilabs.com. But just supporting the concept is also great, of course. More options is probably better.

41 points by Bogdanp 1y ago

Very cool, didn't know about this! Their website [1] has lots of more details of course, as well as pictures (or renders, not sure) of the planned products. I was bordering on being interested, since it would be cool to feel that the phone is fun/interesting again, but then I realized that in real life I'm way too tied to various proprietary (Android, in my case) apps since pretty much everything that could be a web site has been made into an app. :| Went back to check since I had a thought, and they do state that they will include a "jailed Android OS" which I guess helps, but that also kinda removes the free/open/clean feeling associated with having a Linux-based phone. Hm. I guess I'm just complaining, at this point. Sorry. :) [1]: https://liberux.net/#specs https://liberux.net/#specs

soco 1y ago

For me it's all in the camera specs and results. I can't wait to hear about that!

ranguna 1y ago

If this is going to be Linux phone, then a good use case would be to use it on desktop mode with an external monitor. They mention this on their website but they are planning on doing it with a convuluted wireless device? Why not simply usb C with displayport alt mode? I could just stick a dongle in there and connect all my peripherals. It's not new technology, that's what I do with my 3 year old phone.

ranguna 1y ago
Taken directly from the interview: > Does one (or both) of the USB-C ports support DisplayPort Alt Mode, so that I can plug into a display without carrying accessories? > > Yes, at least one of the ports will provide direct DisplayPort output, allowing you to use the Nexx as a desktop without additional docks. So indeed, it's going to have displayport! I'm guessing their wireless dock is optional.

namedthing0 1y ago

This is the only way to escape the suffocating stranglehold of big american tech.It is high time for tech made for users, instead of tech for stockholders with no morals at all.

a2128 1y ago

I've backed a different EU alt-hardware project before and it's always more tricky to make a product than it seems. The other project already had finalized most of the design (which took years of work prior to crowdfunding), had multiple assembled prototypes, and were promising shipping in 6 months. It turned out to take 2 to 3 years between all the component delays, negotiating with manufacturers, getting production lines set up, hardware certification, fixing design flaws, yelling at manufacturers for doing something wrong. Some of these delays probably could've been avoidable but there truly seemed to be surprises every step of the way. These people seem to have not much more than a dev board that talks to a PC, and are promising to go from that to shipping fully assembled phones in 1 year. It would truly be amazing to see but I really don't think that's a realistic amount of time

nairboon 1y ago
Which project was this?
- rajaravivarma_r 1y ago
  Not the author of parent comment, but from the description it looks like it is Jolla Tablet, which was crowdfunded and the delivery got delayed. After an year or so, some of the funders go the tablet. While, some of us got half a refund.
pabs3 1y ago
I think OpenMoko was like that too, apart from the crowdfunding.

jchw 1y ago

Interesting specs. Looks like it's based on the RK3588S. In terms of CPU grunt that's a fairly good upgrade over the RK3399S used in the Pinephone Pro, ~3x more performance in single core according to Passmark[1]. For the GPU in the RK3588, there is a Mali-G610 MP4, which at least on paper looks pretty promising. Notebookcheck shows it only -35% of the Apple A14 Bionic[2]. For comparison, the Mali-T860 MP2 in the RK3399S used by the Pinephone Pro seems rather anemic by today's standards[3]. The other specs also look fairly good. 32 GiB of modular(!) RAM, two decent resolution camera sensors, a fingerprint sensor, a decently large battery, a modern modem... It stands to reason that if they really do manage to get mainline Linux working well on this, while it won't be cutting edge by smartphone standards, it really ought to be one of the first mainline Linux phones where the performance is actually decent. I'm cautiously optimistic. Looking at the postmarketOS compatibility list, few phones on the market have good modem support and fewer have working camera (literally no device has managed to get a "Y" in camera!) which makes me wonder if the fairly modern Qualcomm modem and fairly decent looking camera sensors they chose can really actually work under mainline Linux and a fairly stock userland. If it does, then damn. We're possibly entering peak "viable Linux phone" territory here. [1]: https://www.cpubenchmark.net/compare/4906vs3987/Rockchip-RK3588-vs-Rockchip-RK3399 https://www.cpubenchmark.net/compare/4906vs3987/Rockchip-RK3... [2]: https://www.notebookcheck.net/ARM-Mali-G610-MP4-Benchmarks-and-Specs.814022.0.html https://www.notebookcheck.net/ARM-Mali-G610-MP4-Benchmarks-a... [3]: https://www.notebookcheck.net/ARM-Mali-T860-MP2-Benchmarks-and-Specs.163318.0.html https://www.notebookcheck.net/ARM-Mali-T860-MP2-Benchmarks-a...

anonymousiam 1y ago

I've been looking at Linux phone options for a while now. This one is crowd funded, so I'm waiting to see if it actually materializes. Some things that buyers might want to consider: Supply Chain Security - Do you trust the manufacturer? What about their suppliers? What about their government? Pretty much every government in the world has mandated access to mobile phone activities, so choose which government you want to have this access. Spain is part of the EU, so you get the bonus of both their national government, and the EU having full access to your private communications under their rules for doing so.

einpoklum 1y ago
> Do you trust the manufacturer? Difficult, unless they've already manufactured a phone before, that I know very well. And on the other hand, if they're bing and have manufactured things before - some might be good and other bad. e.g. do you trust Samsung or Xiaomi for example? Do you trust Dell or Asus or Lenovo for laptops? No general answer really. Other than the fact that, at the bottom line, capitalist corporations are more committed to generating profit for the owners than benefit for the users/customers, and in that sense trust is inherently limited. > What about their suppliers? How would users know about the suppliers, or know whether suppliers are trustworthy? Also, same point as above.
Maken 1y ago
I trust much more anything and anybody EU-based to protect my privacy than those based in almost any other country. For starters, in Spain communications' privacy is an explicit constitutional right. And at the EU level, while there is no explicit constitution, all the countries are bound by the ECHR and its court on this matter. It's not perfect but it's way better than countries that either have no privacy laws or explicitly request companies to allow unlimited government access to their users' data.
- anonymousiam 1y ago
  Privacy from data collection by companies is one thing, but privacy from government surveillance is another. Why do you suppose France is holding Pavel Durov? https://reclaimthenet.org/telegram-founder-pavel-durov-slams-eu-censorship-digital-services-act https://reclaimthenet.org/telegram-founder-pavel-durov-slams...

einpoklum 1y ago

Well, I would say that even if you're wary/lack enthusiasm about this particular phone - donate a few EUR towards it. At best - the project gets off the ground thanks to many small funders. At worst - you lost 10 EUR or whatever, that you can think of as charity for people working on something neat, and "tuition fees" for other projects later on.

summm 1y ago

Previous discussions: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42803559 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42803559 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42821868 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42821868

abdhass 1y ago

In terms of security, privacy and anonymity, is the OS much different than grapheneOS?

pabs3 1y ago
Sounds like the OS will be Debian based, so probably not as good as grapheneOS in those terms. https://wiki.debian.org/PrivacyIssues https://wiki.debian.org/PrivacyIssues

ktosobcy 1y ago

Just the other day I was actually talking with a colleague about actually missing proper open phone outside of the abysmal duopoly (android/ios) and voilà, this popped up. I'm kinda tempted to get one just to support the concept and EU-based initiative. I just hate that our mobile market is locked-in... in my case the most annoying thing would be banking :/

Vinnl 1y ago
There are a couple of other projects, but I think the one most similar to this one that is already shipping is the FuriPhone, in case you want one right now: https://furilabs.com https://furilabs.com. But just supporting the concept is also great, of course. More options is probably better.