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My desire to visit the US just went sub zero. The worst part is this has the possibility to spread to other countries (that the US can twist the arm of) becaus

My desire to visit the US just went sub zero. The worst part is this has the possibility to spread to other countries (that the US can twist the arm of) because they want to extend their policies further.

franczesko 1y ago
USA is a beautiful place to visit and people are very hositable. I think that there's a big difference between what people do and what the state does. I do agree however, that what is happening in this country right now is deeply concerning.
- showsover 1y ago
  As can be said about Afganistan and its people. That doesn't mean it's not risky going there or that people are queueing to enter.
- jeroenhd 1y ago
  The same can be said about just about any country. Based on the way Americans vote, I don't think that hospitality is there for the majority of Americans. I know the way the American system of politics has shifted to a binary choice doesn't leave much room for nuance when it comes to specific policies, but when Americans were faced with a choice between a racist, misogynist, fraudulent, insurrectionist sex offender and anyone else, they showed their values. Plus, the country's leader announced he was considering invading a close ally, that kind of threat cannot be ignored either, though it's only one of the more recent threats to world peace that only happens to hit close to home for me. I'm sure people in the Middle East and Central or South America will have heard this kind of talk before. In the same vein, I hope people judge my country for the fact that right extremists that have held a significant amount of power for years now. There are hospitable, kind people in every street in every town, but I won't pretend the average person will be like that; voter demographics have definitely been a continuous source of disappointment for me. Perhaps that's one of the downsides of democracy: the people of a country show their true colours quite publicly, and can't hide behind "that's just what the regime thinks". You're right about the beauty, though. America is a very pretty place.
  - jumpman_miya 1y ago
    [dead]
  - sofixa 1y ago
    > but when Americans were faced with a choice between a racist, misogynist, fraudulent, insurrectionist sex offender and anyone else, they showed their values. Don't forget serial cheater with multiple divorces (supposedly the choice of the religious people of "family values"), blatantly corrupt out in public, borderline senile (seriously, listen to the guy speak for more than a minute, it's barely coherent), mocking disabled people, etc etc etc. How that person is even seriously taken as a candidate, let alone actually winning anything, is genuinely beyond me. Especially for a second term after multiple convictions inbetween.
    - laurentiurad 1y ago
      shows the morale decline of the general population
      - quantified 1y ago
        Moral, I think you mean. Being all "jesus christ is my savior" has nothing to do with actual morals, just power. Morale has declined too, though.
- kashunstva 1y ago
  > I think that there's a big difference between what people do and what the state does One of most famous speeches in U.S. history talks about a government that is “of the people, by the people, for the people.” If the State behaves in a certain way, it is of the people. Many people who cast their vote for the current regime are perfectly cordial in face-to-face interactions; but nonetheless they gave their consent to these policies. There is a deeply divided plurality, of course, but I’d rather limit my visits to the U.S. regardless of its natural beauties or the hospitality of its populace, be it real or superficial. Were I a student from outside the U.S., forget it, I would never consider it a safe option for post-secondary education. The absolute risk of serious harm, I imagine, is low; but who needs this humiliation?
- arunabha 1y ago
  > USA is a beautiful place to visit and people are very hositable Yeah, the jury is still out on the second part of the claim.
- beloch 1y ago
  Speaking as a Northern neighbour of the U.S., it rings hollow when we hear American state politicians telling us that they love Canadians and really hope we visit more (tourism is down) and go back to buying American (exports are down). The American government is waging economic war on us with the openly announced intention of annexing us. American pundits (and the idiot ambassador Trump sent us) tell us to downplay it, but the president keeps bringing it up! I'm still working to cut more American goods and companies out of my life. I'm sorry, but Americans are responsible for what their government does. If you wish to be forgiven, you must first stop doing what you say you're sorry for!
  - amanaplanacanal 1y ago
    I think most of us would like to get rid of our idiot president, but the only way to do it now is impeachment, which would require breaking the Republican majority in both houses of the legislature. It could possibly happen next year in the mid term elections, but it's going to be tough.
    - jumpman_miya 1y ago
      [dead]
- Vinnl 1y ago
  The point of GP's remark was not to condemn the people or the beauty of the place, but that they didn't want to expose themselves to these rules.
- tigrezno 1y ago
  North Koreans are also good people but I'm not visiting that country ever
- ehnto 1y ago
  Whilst that is nice to know, these are real tangible barriers to entry. Both literally and by making it a far less attractive place to cross the border. As a very run of the mill Australian, I would not feel safe crossing your border right now. The overreach, lack of transparency and documented instances of recent abuse put it at about the same risk as Russia or China. If border force is having a bad day, bad luck, you get fucked over with no recourse, no transparency. Too bad. It is no surprise that tourism has plummeted.
- acdha 1y ago
  > USA is a beautiful place to visit and people are very hospitable. There’s a high degree of variability there based on location, your English fluency, and skin color. I know people who’ve had very different experiences based on that - it’s why my white European friends never think twice about going on a backwoods camping trip but some from Africa or South America stopped. Even if most people are nice, the ⅓ or so set the tone for the entire trip.
quite-sfwd 1y ago
Some countries don't even need the arm twist (eg Central/South America) they'd just copy the US out of inertia.
jampekka 1y ago
> The worst part is this has the possibility to spread to other countries (that the US can twist the arm of) because they want to extend their policies further. UK is already almost as bad. But UKs political elite is maybe even more pro-Israel than USAs.
- GJim 1y ago
  [flagged]
- ascorbic 1y ago
  It really isn't. The UK government has strongly criticised the Israeli government's actions, and has applied sanctions to some far-right Israeli government ministers: - https://www.gov.uk/government/news/joint-statement-from-the-leaders-of-the-united-kingdom-france-and-canada-on-the-situation-in-gaza-and-the-west-bank https://www.gov.uk/government/news/joint-statement-from-the-... - https://www.gov.uk/government/news/uk-and-partners-unite-to-sanction-ministers-inciting-west-bank-violence https://www.gov.uk/government/news/uk-and-partners-unite-to-...
  - TheOtherHobbes 1y ago
    Performative and meaningless. The UK has been providing direct military support for the Gaza campaign for months now, long after it became obvious what the goals and methods were. https://www.declassifieduk.org/bbc-chief-downplays-britains-military-support-for-israel/ https://www.declassifieduk.org/bbc-chief-downplays-britains-... The UK's media have also provided extremely slanted reporting.
  - jampekka 1y ago
    UK also deports and revokes visas for "inciting antisemitic rethoric". https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/oct/25/visitors-to-uk-who-incite-antisemitism-will-be-removed-says-minister-robert-jenrick https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/oct/25/visitors-to-...
    - ascorbic 1y ago
laurentiurad 1y ago
considering the low price of the aircraft tickets (at least from Europe) to the US, you are not alone.
amazingamazing 1y ago
It’s for the best - air travel is expensive climate wise and our planet is warming.
- ponector 1y ago
  Is it the only way to travel to the USA?
  - amazingamazing 1y ago
    The vast majority of those traveling to USA do so through plane, yes.
xtracto 1y ago
Right, just freaking stop going there. Americans have made it loud and clear (by voting with majority) that they don't like outsiders. Stop going to the US. Is it pretty? There are way better places on earth. Is it fun? There are way funnier places ok earth. There's no reason to submit to all that degrading behavior. Good riddance. Let the. Keep their decadent country to themselves until it crumbles.
- mig39 1y ago
  I'm Canadian. Before Trump, I made several trips a year to the USA. all my vacation money was spent there. Now I go to Europe every summer instead. Meanwhile, I recently received a survey from some industry association in the USA asking what it would take for me to return to travelling in the USA. Like asking a bunch of questions about accommodations, travel, flights, etc. Without even mentioning the obvious. Do Americans not know how they are perceived in the rest of the world?
  - quantified 1y ago
    As an American, I can only believe it because I know the dipshts that got elected. I wouldn't come here. This is all a real wtf. Note that in the pre-social media era, this particular bs would not be possible.
  - idkfasayer 1y ago
    [dead]
- soared 1y ago
  To be clear, at this point the majority of Americans do not support the current administration. So blaming it on the American government is more apt.
  - jampekka 1y ago
    Majority supports the immigration agenda though.

franczesko 1y ago

USA is a beautiful place to visit and people are very hositable. I think that there's a big difference between what people do and what the state does. I do agree however, that what is happening in this country right now is deeply concerning.

showsover 1y ago
As can be said about Afganistan and its people. That doesn't mean it's not risky going there or that people are queueing to enter.
jeroenhd 1y ago
The same can be said about just about any country. Based on the way Americans vote, I don't think that hospitality is there for the majority of Americans. I know the way the American system of politics has shifted to a binary choice doesn't leave much room for nuance when it comes to specific policies, but when Americans were faced with a choice between a racist, misogynist, fraudulent, insurrectionist sex offender and anyone else, they showed their values. Plus, the country's leader announced he was considering invading a close ally, that kind of threat cannot be ignored either, though it's only one of the more recent threats to world peace that only happens to hit close to home for me. I'm sure people in the Middle East and Central or South America will have heard this kind of talk before. In the same vein, I hope people judge my country for the fact that right extremists that have held a significant amount of power for years now. There are hospitable, kind people in every street in every town, but I won't pretend the average person will be like that; voter demographics have definitely been a continuous source of disappointment for me. Perhaps that's one of the downsides of democracy: the people of a country show their true colours quite publicly, and can't hide behind "that's just what the regime thinks". You're right about the beauty, though. America is a very pretty place.
- jumpman_miya 1y ago
  [dead]
- sofixa 1y ago
  > but when Americans were faced with a choice between a racist, misogynist, fraudulent, insurrectionist sex offender and anyone else, they showed their values. Don't forget serial cheater with multiple divorces (supposedly the choice of the religious people of "family values"), blatantly corrupt out in public, borderline senile (seriously, listen to the guy speak for more than a minute, it's barely coherent), mocking disabled people, etc etc etc. How that person is even seriously taken as a candidate, let alone actually winning anything, is genuinely beyond me. Especially for a second term after multiple convictions inbetween.
  - laurentiurad 1y ago
    shows the morale decline of the general population
    - quantified 1y ago
      Moral, I think you mean. Being all "jesus christ is my savior" has nothing to do with actual morals, just power. Morale has declined too, though.
kashunstva 1y ago
> I think that there's a big difference between what people do and what the state does One of most famous speeches in U.S. history talks about a government that is “of the people, by the people, for the people.” If the State behaves in a certain way, it is of the people. Many people who cast their vote for the current regime are perfectly cordial in face-to-face interactions; but nonetheless they gave their consent to these policies. There is a deeply divided plurality, of course, but I’d rather limit my visits to the U.S. regardless of its natural beauties or the hospitality of its populace, be it real or superficial. Were I a student from outside the U.S., forget it, I would never consider it a safe option for post-secondary education. The absolute risk of serious harm, I imagine, is low; but who needs this humiliation?
arunabha 1y ago
> USA is a beautiful place to visit and people are very hositable Yeah, the jury is still out on the second part of the claim.
beloch 1y ago
Speaking as a Northern neighbour of the U.S., it rings hollow when we hear American state politicians telling us that they love Canadians and really hope we visit more (tourism is down) and go back to buying American (exports are down). The American government is waging economic war on us with the openly announced intention of annexing us. American pundits (and the idiot ambassador Trump sent us) tell us to downplay it, but the president keeps bringing it up! I'm still working to cut more American goods and companies out of my life. I'm sorry, but Americans are responsible for what their government does. If you wish to be forgiven, you must first stop doing what you say you're sorry for!
- amanaplanacanal 1y ago
  I think most of us would like to get rid of our idiot president, but the only way to do it now is impeachment, which would require breaking the Republican majority in both houses of the legislature. It could possibly happen next year in the mid term elections, but it's going to be tough.
  - jumpman_miya 1y ago
    [dead]
Vinnl 1y ago
The point of GP's remark was not to condemn the people or the beauty of the place, but that they didn't want to expose themselves to these rules.
tigrezno 1y ago
North Koreans are also good people but I'm not visiting that country ever
ehnto 1y ago
Whilst that is nice to know, these are real tangible barriers to entry. Both literally and by making it a far less attractive place to cross the border. As a very run of the mill Australian, I would not feel safe crossing your border right now. The overreach, lack of transparency and documented instances of recent abuse put it at about the same risk as Russia or China. If border force is having a bad day, bad luck, you get fucked over with no recourse, no transparency. Too bad. It is no surprise that tourism has plummeted.
acdha 1y ago
> USA is a beautiful place to visit and people are very hospitable. There’s a high degree of variability there based on location, your English fluency, and skin color. I know people who’ve had very different experiences based on that - it’s why my white European friends never think twice about going on a backwoods camping trip but some from Africa or South America stopped. Even if most people are nice, the ⅓ or so set the tone for the entire trip.

quite-sfwd 1y ago

Some countries don't even need the arm twist (eg Central/South America) they'd just copy the US out of inertia.

jampekka 1y ago

> The worst part is this has the possibility to spread to other countries (that the US can twist the arm of) because they want to extend their policies further. UK is already almost as bad. But UKs political elite is maybe even more pro-Israel than USAs.

GJim 1y ago
[flagged]
ascorbic 1y ago
It really isn't. The UK government has strongly criticised the Israeli government's actions, and has applied sanctions to some far-right Israeli government ministers: - https://www.gov.uk/government/news/joint-statement-from-the-leaders-of-the-united-kingdom-france-and-canada-on-the-situation-in-gaza-and-the-west-bank https://www.gov.uk/government/news/joint-statement-from-the-... - https://www.gov.uk/government/news/uk-and-partners-unite-to-sanction-ministers-inciting-west-bank-violence https://www.gov.uk/government/news/uk-and-partners-unite-to-...
- TheOtherHobbes 1y ago
  Performative and meaningless. The UK has been providing direct military support for the Gaza campaign for months now, long after it became obvious what the goals and methods were. https://www.declassifieduk.org/bbc-chief-downplays-britains-military-support-for-israel/ https://www.declassifieduk.org/bbc-chief-downplays-britains-... The UK's media have also provided extremely slanted reporting.
- jampekka 1y ago
  UK also deports and revokes visas for "inciting antisemitic rethoric". https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/oct/25/visitors-to-uk-who-incite-antisemitism-will-be-removed-says-minister-robert-jenrick https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/oct/25/visitors-to-...
  - ascorbic 1y ago

laurentiurad 1y ago

considering the low price of the aircraft tickets (at least from Europe) to the US, you are not alone.

amazingamazing 1y ago

It’s for the best - air travel is expensive climate wise and our planet is warming.

ponector 1y ago
Is it the only way to travel to the USA?
- amazingamazing 1y ago
  The vast majority of those traveling to USA do so through plane, yes.

xtracto 1y ago

Right, just freaking stop going there. Americans have made it loud and clear (by voting with majority) that they don't like outsiders. Stop going to the US. Is it pretty? There are way better places on earth. Is it fun? There are way funnier places ok earth. There's no reason to submit to all that degrading behavior. Good riddance. Let the. Keep their decadent country to themselves until it crumbles.

mig39 1y ago
I'm Canadian. Before Trump, I made several trips a year to the USA. all my vacation money was spent there. Now I go to Europe every summer instead. Meanwhile, I recently received a survey from some industry association in the USA asking what it would take for me to return to travelling in the USA. Like asking a bunch of questions about accommodations, travel, flights, etc. Without even mentioning the obvious. Do Americans not know how they are perceived in the rest of the world?
- quantified 1y ago
  As an American, I can only believe it because I know the dipshts that got elected. I wouldn't come here. This is all a real wtf. Note that in the pre-social media era, this particular bs would not be possible.
- idkfasayer 1y ago
  [dead]
soared 1y ago
To be clear, at this point the majority of Americans do not support the current administration. So blaming it on the American government is more apt.
- jampekka 1y ago
  Majority supports the immigration agenda though.