6 ms·

I think the repairabilty makes it hard to even compare monetary value, since in theory, you'd be keeping the same body, while swapping out the mainboard. Is it

by atrus 1y ago

I think the repairabilty makes it hard to even compare monetary value, since in theory, you'd be keeping the same body, while swapping out the mainboard. Is it cheaper to buy two other laptops compared to one laptop + mainboard? That's what, a 3-5 year timeline? Who knows what prices/capabilities/etc will be like then.

nucleardog 1y ago
Yeah, I personally take that into account however I can see why someone may not. Framework has released fairly consistent upgrades for the Framework 13, but there's no guarantee that they will continue to do so, will release upgrades for the Framework 16, etc. I think in a few years when they've been in business for closer to a decade than not and released updates across the whole product line, it'd be pretty hard for anyone to make an argument that that _shouldn't_ be factored in.
benrutter 1y ago
Yeah, this is my experience with a Fairphone 4. It seemed pricey initially, but I have saved sooo much by being able to carry out simple repairs.
- paldepind2 1y ago
  How often do you break your phone that you've save sooo much? Mine is at least 2 years older (I got it 2 years before the Fairphone 4 was released) and I've spend 0$ dollars repairing it.
  - benrutter 1y ago
    Embarrasingly often! Things I've done specifically: - Getting cement in the charger port - Dropping the phone on its screen breaking it With some phones both of those could be full replacements.
  - XorNot 1y ago
    In a laptop context the advent of soldered on RAM and SSDs has made this a more significant issue though. That 1TB I thought was enough might not be, and suddenly I need to buy a whole new machine to upgrade.
    - christophilus 1y ago
      Are the SSDs often soldered? I thought that was only the RAM.
      - kelnos 1y ago
        Depends on the brand/model, of course, but I think for a 13"-sized laptop, it's pretty common to solder in the storage as well.
  - jijijijij 1y ago
    So you haven’t even changed the battery? That would be impressive durability.
leptons 1y ago
It could also be worth it to keep the same body and upgrade over the years, just to avoid the frustration of re-learning a new laptop keyboard layout.
- brudgers 1y ago
  Thinkpads have had similar layouts for decades. The keyboard mechanisms have of course changed, but the Emacs friendly dual ctrl and alt symmetric about the space bar have remained. Also being the most Linux friendly laptop also means they have very long update lifespans and being well built tend not to break…though there are plenty of repair parts and spares.
linsomniac 1y ago
>in theory, you'd be keeping the same body, while swapping out the mainboard. I love the idea of Framework, but the upgradability seems questionable to me. I base this off my experience with desktops where I've rarely over the decades upgraded more than the hard drive and RAM. When I'm looking at upgrading the motherboard it seems I just end up going all the way and getting a new case/ps/etc at the same time. Maybe that's just me though?
- CoffeeOnWrite 1y ago
  Because the old machine is still useful intact. I don’t see a difference between laptop and desktop here. I agree I don’t see myself ever swapping in an upgraded motherboard.
  - MetaWhirledPeas 1y ago
    I think there are some important differences. Desktops are a continually evolving space and a hobby all on their own, due to all the different cooling options and aesthetic upgrades available. And since a lot of these involve a case swap you might as well do the whole enchilada. The niche created by Framework, in contrast, is all about reuse. It's just a different game.
  - scheme271 1y ago
    There's kits that let you adapt the old motherboard into a server unit. It's a nice way to get a faster laptop while reusing your old components.
  - kelnos 1y ago
    > Because the old machine is still useful intact I do wonder how many people repurpose old laptops when they get a new one. I have three old laptops, two of which I haven't turned on since I transferred my stuff to the next one. My partner uses the third one to game sometimes, but she's recently gotten a new laptop of her own (her old one is ancient), so I expect she'll stop using that one as well. My current laptop is a Framework 13 (from 2022) that has already seen some upgrades and repairs that wouldn't be possible on any of my old laptops. I expect this chassis and SSD to last quite a long time, with periodic mainboard and RAM upgrades.
paxys 1y ago
And it isn't just about upgrading for better specs. I'd wager the majority of people's laptop replacement cycle is triggerd by a single part dying (screen, hard disk, keyboard, hinges, PSU), the device being out of warranty, and the store quoting more for the fix than a new device would cost. Being able to purchase the $50 part online and do the repair yourself will probably save the average person thousands over a 3-5 year span.
- richardwhiuk 1y ago
  Most laptops I know have lasted 5-7 years and then been replaced. It's totally unclear to me that a single part would have changed any of those replacements. I'm curious if you have a different experience where you ditch a laptop after less than 3 years because a single part has broken as you imply.
  - Tade0 1y ago
    I did that once when I created a pressure mark on the screen via mishandling, bought a replacement only to find that it didn't fit due to some kind of nuance in the model name - never found the correct part. I passed it down to family and bought a new laptop, as my attempt at repairing also damaged the plastic parts which were holding the bezel in place. Overall every laptop I had suffered mechanical damage of some sort and occasionally it was just something I had to live with, as I didn't want to chance e.g. soldering. With my Framework I know any regular repair is a 30min job, as I assembled and disassembled it several times already.
- dzhiurgis 1y ago
  You can get AppleCare for at least 4 years now, not sure if you can extend beyond that. Also, while I can repair laptops myself, I for sure don't want to. For me cheap storage is the only sell and even that I can mitigate with tiny flush external SSD stick and/or NAS.
dzhiurgis 1y ago
Why would I care when I can get at least 4 years worth of AppleCare from Apple?
- nmridul 1y ago
  Here you can mostly dyi the repair. So you are not stuck waiting for Apple's appointment and repair schedule which would be a week at the minimum that you are grounded. Plus easy upgradeability ..
  - dzhiurgis 1y ago
    I don't really want to DIY, I want quicker turnaround from Apple (which generally can pull off same day repairs if you ask).

by atrus 1y ago

nucleardog 1y ago

Yeah, I personally take that into account however I can see why someone may not. Framework has released fairly consistent upgrades for the Framework 13, but there's no guarantee that they will continue to do so, will release upgrades for the Framework 16, etc. I think in a few years when they've been in business for closer to a decade than not and released updates across the whole product line, it'd be pretty hard for anyone to make an argument that that _shouldn't_ be factored in.

benrutter 1y ago

Yeah, this is my experience with a Fairphone 4. It seemed pricey initially, but I have saved sooo much by being able to carry out simple repairs.

paldepind2 1y ago
How often do you break your phone that you've save sooo much? Mine is at least 2 years older (I got it 2 years before the Fairphone 4 was released) and I've spend 0$ dollars repairing it.
- benrutter 1y ago
  Embarrasingly often! Things I've done specifically: - Getting cement in the charger port - Dropping the phone on its screen breaking it With some phones both of those could be full replacements.
- XorNot 1y ago
  In a laptop context the advent of soldered on RAM and SSDs has made this a more significant issue though. That 1TB I thought was enough might not be, and suddenly I need to buy a whole new machine to upgrade.
  - christophilus 1y ago
    Are the SSDs often soldered? I thought that was only the RAM.
    - kelnos 1y ago
      Depends on the brand/model, of course, but I think for a 13"-sized laptop, it's pretty common to solder in the storage as well.
- jijijijij 1y ago
  So you haven’t even changed the battery? That would be impressive durability.

leptons 1y ago

It could also be worth it to keep the same body and upgrade over the years, just to avoid the frustration of re-learning a new laptop keyboard layout.

brudgers 1y ago
Thinkpads have had similar layouts for decades. The keyboard mechanisms have of course changed, but the Emacs friendly dual ctrl and alt symmetric about the space bar have remained. Also being the most Linux friendly laptop also means they have very long update lifespans and being well built tend not to break…though there are plenty of repair parts and spares.

linsomniac 1y ago

>in theory, you'd be keeping the same body, while swapping out the mainboard. I love the idea of Framework, but the upgradability seems questionable to me. I base this off my experience with desktops where I've rarely over the decades upgraded more than the hard drive and RAM. When I'm looking at upgrading the motherboard it seems I just end up going all the way and getting a new case/ps/etc at the same time. Maybe that's just me though?

CoffeeOnWrite 1y ago
Because the old machine is still useful intact. I don’t see a difference between laptop and desktop here. I agree I don’t see myself ever swapping in an upgraded motherboard.
- MetaWhirledPeas 1y ago
  I think there are some important differences. Desktops are a continually evolving space and a hobby all on their own, due to all the different cooling options and aesthetic upgrades available. And since a lot of these involve a case swap you might as well do the whole enchilada. The niche created by Framework, in contrast, is all about reuse. It's just a different game.
- scheme271 1y ago
  There's kits that let you adapt the old motherboard into a server unit. It's a nice way to get a faster laptop while reusing your old components.
- kelnos 1y ago
  > Because the old machine is still useful intact I do wonder how many people repurpose old laptops when they get a new one. I have three old laptops, two of which I haven't turned on since I transferred my stuff to the next one. My partner uses the third one to game sometimes, but she's recently gotten a new laptop of her own (her old one is ancient), so I expect she'll stop using that one as well. My current laptop is a Framework 13 (from 2022) that has already seen some upgrades and repairs that wouldn't be possible on any of my old laptops. I expect this chassis and SSD to last quite a long time, with periodic mainboard and RAM upgrades.

paxys 1y ago

And it isn't just about upgrading for better specs. I'd wager the majority of people's laptop replacement cycle is triggerd by a single part dying (screen, hard disk, keyboard, hinges, PSU), the device being out of warranty, and the store quoting more for the fix than a new device would cost. Being able to purchase the $50 part online and do the repair yourself will probably save the average person thousands over a 3-5 year span.

richardwhiuk 1y ago
Most laptops I know have lasted 5-7 years and then been replaced. It's totally unclear to me that a single part would have changed any of those replacements. I'm curious if you have a different experience where you ditch a laptop after less than 3 years because a single part has broken as you imply.
- Tade0 1y ago
  I did that once when I created a pressure mark on the screen via mishandling, bought a replacement only to find that it didn't fit due to some kind of nuance in the model name - never found the correct part. I passed it down to family and bought a new laptop, as my attempt at repairing also damaged the plastic parts which were holding the bezel in place. Overall every laptop I had suffered mechanical damage of some sort and occasionally it was just something I had to live with, as I didn't want to chance e.g. soldering. With my Framework I know any regular repair is a 30min job, as I assembled and disassembled it several times already.
dzhiurgis 1y ago
You can get AppleCare for at least 4 years now, not sure if you can extend beyond that. Also, while I can repair laptops myself, I for sure don't want to. For me cheap storage is the only sell and even that I can mitigate with tiny flush external SSD stick and/or NAS.

dzhiurgis 1y ago

Why would I care when I can get at least 4 years worth of AppleCare from Apple?

nmridul 1y ago
Here you can mostly dyi the repair. So you are not stuck waiting for Apple's appointment and repair schedule which would be a week at the minimum that you are grounded. Plus easy upgradeability ..
- dzhiurgis 1y ago
  I don't really want to DIY, I want quicker turnaround from Apple (which generally can pull off same day repairs if you ask).