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> Why does it matter if the messages are e2e encrypted if the messages are managed on the two ends of the channel by a closed source binary that does who-knows-

by ajross 1y ago

> Why does it matter if the messages are e2e encrypted if the messages are managed on the two ends of the channel by a closed source binary that does who-knows-what. Would you prefer your dissident messages be read by Meta Corporation or the Islamic Republic of Iran? That's the difference. No, there's no technical difference in the sense that neither solution can be verified to be probably secure vs. third party inspection. But in the real world the specifics of who the actors are are and the tactics they are known to employ are absolutely part of the threat model.

MitPitt 1y ago
> read by Meta Corporation or Neither please! Corpos can obviously sell out or be pressured into giving out info to all sorts of agencies
- ajross 1y ago
  That's not responsive, though. The point is there are actual human beings in a war zone under a repressive regime making decisions about software. And they aren't interested in your abstract idea about "corpos" being "pressured". They want not to be snatched by the secret police. Please.
  - pxc 1y ago
    How is this "abstract"? Corporations being pressured can directly lead to being snatched by the secret police.
    - ajross 1y ago
      Can you cite the specific instance of Meta (or whoever) receiving pressure that led to an extrajudicial arrest (or whatever)? Or at least the specifics of the sharing that would enable it? Because if you're not talking about specifics your point is "abstract" by definition. Repression in Iran is real, not abstract. It happens, the state wants to monitor internet use to enable it, and the linked article is very specific about them wanting to disallow Meta's product.
tmnvix 1y ago
> Would you prefer your dissident messages be read by Meta Corporation or the Islamic Republic of Iran? I'd prefer my messages to not be available to an actor shown to be using AI to select targets for bombing campaigns.

by ajross 1y ago

MitPitt 1y ago

> read by Meta Corporation or Neither please! Corpos can obviously sell out or be pressured into giving out info to all sorts of agencies

ajross 1y ago
That's not responsive, though. The point is there are actual human beings in a war zone under a repressive regime making decisions about software. And they aren't interested in your abstract idea about "corpos" being "pressured". They want not to be snatched by the secret police. Please.
- pxc 1y ago
  How is this "abstract"? Corporations being pressured can directly lead to being snatched by the secret police.
  - ajross 1y ago
    Can you cite the specific instance of Meta (or whoever) receiving pressure that led to an extrajudicial arrest (or whatever)? Or at least the specifics of the sharing that would enable it? Because if you're not talking about specifics your point is "abstract" by definition. Repression in Iran is real, not abstract. It happens, the state wants to monitor internet use to enable it, and the linked article is very specific about them wanting to disallow Meta's product.

tmnvix 1y ago

> Would you prefer your dissident messages be read by Meta Corporation or the Islamic Republic of Iran? I'd prefer my messages to not be available to an actor shown to be using AI to select targets for bombing campaigns.