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I will never understand how anyone in their right mind can use any product owned by Meta…

vkou 1y ago
Easily. The alternatives are also probably up to the same sketchy shit, so your choices are to be a hermit, or accept that your services will spy on you. If you want to participate in society, you have to either trust a very large list of untrustworthy people... Or acknowledge that they are untrustworthy, and mitigate accordingly. Part of that mitigation is accepting the possibility that if the Mossad want to murder you by blowing up your toaster, nobody's going to stop them.
- bdangubic 1y ago
  don’t use any alternatives. I have been off social media for years now and my life and health and relationships and career and … have improved so much I cannot put it in words. even if one says “well that’s crazy, I must get my dopamine through an “app” on my phone meta is on another level of insanity to even consider infesting your life and especially your loved one’s life
  - vkou 1y ago
    Sure, I can also avoid putting chemicals on my body by washing my hair with apple cider vinegar and baking soda, and I can also churn my own butter by hand, and if mom wants to hear from me, she can cross an international border and drive for five hours, with her travels being logged by countless security and traffic cameras, gas station payment processors, and no less than two governments, so that she can converse with me in person in my RF-shielded, copper-lined[1] Faraday-cage basement. There's social media use and there's social media use. Hacker News, Reddit, Facebook, Instagram, Whatsapp, EMail, and my phone's SMS systems all serve dramatically different purposes, and all of them are a varied mix of pros and cons and risks. --- [1] Any Arcanist worth his salt knows that copper has no name, and thus cannot be turned against you.
    - bdangubic 1y ago
      this is too funny how you mind believes social media is “advancement in society” of any kind… don’t blame you though, you are with the majority (and you know what they say when you are… :) )
      - vkou 1y ago
        I believe nothing of the sort about social (or mass) media. I do, however, believe that you aren't engaging with what I'm saying, or recognizing some very obvious logical holes in your arguments. Your argument seems to be one of dogma, not one of reason.
        bdangubic 1y ago
        huh? let me quote one of the commenters here and see if you recognize the words Sure, I can also avoid putting chemicals on my body by washing my hair with apple cider vinegar and baking soda, and I can also churn my own butter by hand…
        vkou 1y ago
        Could you read the rest of the words in that post? There are a lot more of them, and they are kind of integral to its meaning.
        bdangubic 1y ago
        c’mon mate, the first sentence is the most important sentence to reel me in :) jokes aside, I did read your entire post and I don’t disagree with a single word you wrote. I still don’t understand why anyone in their right mind would install a Meta-owned application on their PHONE. Lots of people overall and number on this thread go with “hey, the GOVERNMENT is already spying on you so why don’t I also let one of the most evil corporations in the history of mankind access to all my everything too… I don’t expect privacy in general, it is 2025 after all and we are talking on HN but these silly “plate reader excuses” are really too much… like saying “well the government can obviously break into my home whenever they want (in 2025 without a warrant as well) so why don’t I leave the door wide open, if government can enter why would I care if someone else does :)
  - theshackleford 1y ago
    Checking out of society or any number of other activities you don't feel a huge need for may work for you. You are not everyone and what works for you may not be appropriate for any other individual or group of individuals. > I have been off social media for years now and my life and health and relationships and career and … have improved so much I cannot put it in words. It sounds like you personally had a problem. Congratulations I suppose on solving it. However, I have no such issues. My life, health and relationships are all already where I want them to be, and are not impacted by occasional interaction with others through technology as luckily, I have had no such struggles with self control or moderation. My relationships would be impacted on the other hand if I was to throw a big toddler tantrum about using whatsapp for two weeks whilst i'm overseas with my employer and twenty other people. So i'm probably not going to do that.
- dml2135 1y ago
  > Part of that mitigation is accepting the possibility that if the Mossad want to murder you by blowing up your toaster, nobody's going to stop them. People are not accepting that possibility, they are assuming it will not happen to them and that they are not a target of interest. Change that assumption and attitudes toward privacy also change.
philistine 1y ago
Imagine a small local non-profit with 5000 likes on their page. They might be trying their darnedest to improve their newsletter numbers, but they still need to be on Facebook. Imagine that times a billion.
- bdangubic 1y ago
  meta has made everyone believe that only through their platform can you grow your non-profits and whatnots. and they are obviously great at this, everyone bought that shit. you can organically grow (especially small) non-profits without fucking meta apps.
x0x0 1y ago
Signal lagged so far in polish and features that getting friends and family to use it was doa. So I can choose to communicate with friends and family on the apps they use, or I make it very difficult for them to communicate with me. That ends with them mostly not communicating with me, not with them switching apps.
- bdangubic 1y ago
  don’t your friends and family have phone numbers? I have right now 12 active groups on my text messages. why on earth do you need “app”??! I am lost …
  - vkou 1y ago
    You're using a telephone to call and message people? If you think that your phone provider isn't spying on you, I would like to cut you into an incredible, once-in-a-lifetime investment opportunity in some Louisiana waterfront property. All I need is your phone number, mother's maiden name, ...
    - bdangubic 1y ago
      sure, NSA might be :) but not Meta…
      - x0x0 1y ago
        And China. And likely lots of other nations. https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/security/chinese-hackers-stole-americans-phone-data-8-telecoms-us-officials-say-rcna182942 https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/security/chinese-hackers-stole-...
        bdangubic 1y ago
        got no problems with China, their entire existence is not predicated on selling shit to people and fucking with our youth.
  - 1y ago
Cheer2171 1y ago
Because the entire rest of society has wrapped itself around Facebook, Whatsapp, and Instagram. It is easy to be a free software purist until you need to know if your child's school has a snow day. Websites and mailing lists are dead. I cannot be involved in my child's school or any of the informal social networks around the parents and teachers without using Meta's platforms. I cannot volunteer at a non-profit I care deeply about without using Meta's platforms, because that's what they have to coordinate. Are you going to suggest to me that I should force them onto Signal and a pile of other DIY platforms? I dare you. Look a burned out parent in their bloodshot eyes first.
- bdangubic 1y ago
  I have same situation and: - tell parents and teachers I can be reached at xxx-xxx-xxxx if they need anything - absolutely never had meta-requirement to volunteer. if I did I would 100% know my time there is better spent elsewhere I am not going to suggest you anything except to tell you that you can live a beautiful live outside of the meta-world. it is super easy
  - lukan 1y ago
    "I am not going to suggest you anything except to tell you that you can live a beautiful live outside of the meta-world. it is super easy" Great it is super easy for you, but why do you think your individual experience is valid for other people (who might be thousands of km away in a very different setting)?
    - bdangubic 1y ago
      it may not be but I’ve also heard this excuse a million times before. and whatever the situation is meta products can be avoided. we just have a tendency to give into “hey, we have WhateverSupApp group, why don’t you just install garbage on your phone to be a member of this cool group… thanks, but no thanks :)
      - koakuma-chan 1y ago
tokioyoyo 1y ago
Because super vast majority of the population doesn't care. You can just look at the leaks from the last decade and its outcomes. Every company that deals with socials also know that people only care about their privacy within their own small circle. As in, they only care about privacy within their own small bubbles.

vkou 1y ago

Easily. The alternatives are also probably up to the same sketchy shit, so your choices are to be a hermit, or accept that your services will spy on you. If you want to participate in society, you have to either trust a very large list of untrustworthy people... Or acknowledge that they are untrustworthy, and mitigate accordingly. Part of that mitigation is accepting the possibility that if the Mossad want to murder you by blowing up your toaster, nobody's going to stop them.

bdangubic 1y ago
don’t use any alternatives. I have been off social media for years now and my life and health and relationships and career and … have improved so much I cannot put it in words. even if one says “well that’s crazy, I must get my dopamine through an “app” on my phone meta is on another level of insanity to even consider infesting your life and especially your loved one’s life
- vkou 1y ago
  Sure, I can also avoid putting chemicals on my body by washing my hair with apple cider vinegar and baking soda, and I can also churn my own butter by hand, and if mom wants to hear from me, she can cross an international border and drive for five hours, with her travels being logged by countless security and traffic cameras, gas station payment processors, and no less than two governments, so that she can converse with me in person in my RF-shielded, copper-lined[1] Faraday-cage basement. There's social media use and there's social media use. Hacker News, Reddit, Facebook, Instagram, Whatsapp, EMail, and my phone's SMS systems all serve dramatically different purposes, and all of them are a varied mix of pros and cons and risks. --- [1] Any Arcanist worth his salt knows that copper has no name, and thus cannot be turned against you.
  - bdangubic 1y ago
    this is too funny how you mind believes social media is “advancement in society” of any kind… don’t blame you though, you are with the majority (and you know what they say when you are… :) )
    - vkou 1y ago
      I believe nothing of the sort about social (or mass) media. I do, however, believe that you aren't engaging with what I'm saying, or recognizing some very obvious logical holes in your arguments. Your argument seems to be one of dogma, not one of reason.
      - bdangubic 1y ago
        huh? let me quote one of the commenters here and see if you recognize the words Sure, I can also avoid putting chemicals on my body by washing my hair with apple cider vinegar and baking soda, and I can also churn my own butter by hand…
        vkou 1y ago
        Could you read the rest of the words in that post? There are a lot more of them, and they are kind of integral to its meaning.
        bdangubic 1y ago
        c’mon mate, the first sentence is the most important sentence to reel me in :) jokes aside, I did read your entire post and I don’t disagree with a single word you wrote. I still don’t understand why anyone in their right mind would install a Meta-owned application on their PHONE. Lots of people overall and number on this thread go with “hey, the GOVERNMENT is already spying on you so why don’t I also let one of the most evil corporations in the history of mankind access to all my everything too… I don’t expect privacy in general, it is 2025 after all and we are talking on HN but these silly “plate reader excuses” are really too much… like saying “well the government can obviously break into my home whenever they want (in 2025 without a warrant as well) so why don’t I leave the door wide open, if government can enter why would I care if someone else does :)
- theshackleford 1y ago
  Checking out of society or any number of other activities you don't feel a huge need for may work for you. You are not everyone and what works for you may not be appropriate for any other individual or group of individuals. > I have been off social media for years now and my life and health and relationships and career and … have improved so much I cannot put it in words. It sounds like you personally had a problem. Congratulations I suppose on solving it. However, I have no such issues. My life, health and relationships are all already where I want them to be, and are not impacted by occasional interaction with others through technology as luckily, I have had no such struggles with self control or moderation. My relationships would be impacted on the other hand if I was to throw a big toddler tantrum about using whatsapp for two weeks whilst i'm overseas with my employer and twenty other people. So i'm probably not going to do that.
dml2135 1y ago
> Part of that mitigation is accepting the possibility that if the Mossad want to murder you by blowing up your toaster, nobody's going to stop them. People are not accepting that possibility, they are assuming it will not happen to them and that they are not a target of interest. Change that assumption and attitudes toward privacy also change.

philistine 1y ago

Imagine a small local non-profit with 5000 likes on their page. They might be trying their darnedest to improve their newsletter numbers, but they still need to be on Facebook. Imagine that times a billion.

bdangubic 1y ago
meta has made everyone believe that only through their platform can you grow your non-profits and whatnots. and they are obviously great at this, everyone bought that shit. you can organically grow (especially small) non-profits without fucking meta apps.

x0x0 1y ago

Signal lagged so far in polish and features that getting friends and family to use it was doa. So I can choose to communicate with friends and family on the apps they use, or I make it very difficult for them to communicate with me. That ends with them mostly not communicating with me, not with them switching apps.

bdangubic 1y ago
don’t your friends and family have phone numbers? I have right now 12 active groups on my text messages. why on earth do you need “app”??! I am lost …
- vkou 1y ago
  You're using a telephone to call and message people? If you think that your phone provider isn't spying on you, I would like to cut you into an incredible, once-in-a-lifetime investment opportunity in some Louisiana waterfront property. All I need is your phone number, mother's maiden name, ...
  - bdangubic 1y ago
    sure, NSA might be :) but not Meta…
    - x0x0 1y ago
      And China. And likely lots of other nations. https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/security/chinese-hackers-stole-americans-phone-data-8-telecoms-us-officials-say-rcna182942 https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/security/chinese-hackers-stole-...
      - bdangubic 1y ago
        got no problems with China, their entire existence is not predicated on selling shit to people and fucking with our youth.
- 1y ago

Cheer2171 1y ago

Because the entire rest of society has wrapped itself around Facebook, Whatsapp, and Instagram. It is easy to be a free software purist until you need to know if your child's school has a snow day. Websites and mailing lists are dead. I cannot be involved in my child's school or any of the informal social networks around the parents and teachers without using Meta's platforms. I cannot volunteer at a non-profit I care deeply about without using Meta's platforms, because that's what they have to coordinate. Are you going to suggest to me that I should force them onto Signal and a pile of other DIY platforms? I dare you. Look a burned out parent in their bloodshot eyes first.

bdangubic 1y ago
I have same situation and: - tell parents and teachers I can be reached at xxx-xxx-xxxx if they need anything - absolutely never had meta-requirement to volunteer. if I did I would 100% know my time there is better spent elsewhere I am not going to suggest you anything except to tell you that you can live a beautiful live outside of the meta-world. it is super easy
- lukan 1y ago
  "I am not going to suggest you anything except to tell you that you can live a beautiful live outside of the meta-world. it is super easy" Great it is super easy for you, but why do you think your individual experience is valid for other people (who might be thousands of km away in a very different setting)?
  - bdangubic 1y ago
    it may not be but I’ve also heard this excuse a million times before. and whatever the situation is meta products can be avoided. we just have a tendency to give into “hey, we have WhateverSupApp group, why don’t you just install garbage on your phone to be a member of this cool group… thanks, but no thanks :)
    - koakuma-chan 1y ago

tokioyoyo 1y ago

Because super vast majority of the population doesn't care. You can just look at the leaks from the last decade and its outcomes. Every company that deals with socials also know that people only care about their privacy within their own small circle. As in, they only care about privacy within their own small bubbles.