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Other comments here (so far) don't seem super happy with this, but I can't help think this is a good thing primarily because of this: "The fediverse feed isn’t

Other comments here (so far) don't seem super happy with this, but I can't help think this is a good thing primarily because of this: "The fediverse feed isn’t algorithmically ranked, or subject to any of Threads’ rules or moderation; it’s just a reverse-chronological feed of stuff you follow." That's great! Any step we can take away from ultra-algorithimically-optimized feeds, the better, I think. Normalize reverse-chronological feeds again.

fsflover 1y ago
Meta can still choose in which order they show those posts...
- qualeed 1y ago
  As stated in the article, for now at least, they wont be.
  - 9dev 1y ago
    They also promised there’ll never be ads on WhatsApp. Whatever statement Meta makes isn’t worth the paper it’s printed on.
    - qualeed 1y ago
      Non-algorithmic feeds are a good thing. That sums up my feelings. When that changes, or it gets plastered in ads, my feelings will be "well that was good while it lasted". Until then, I'm choosing not to doom say about it.
bix6 1y ago
Are you familiar with embrace, extend, extinguish?
- qualeed 1y ago
  Sure. I'm also familiar with positive reinforcement. If/when they start touching the reverse-chronological feed with algorithms I'll call it out. Until that time, I'm happy that it's a non-algorithmic feed and will say so. (It's also not clear to me what "extinguish" would look like here. If Threads starts messing with the feed, just go view it anywhere else you view you fediverse feeds)
  - foogazi 1y ago
    > I'll call it out What’s the point if the algorithm buries it
  - jdenning 1y ago
    Extinguish comes after extend -- eg, the goal is to make their client the preferred client for fediverse feeds for a large number of people by adding some kind of feature that they can prevent fediverse projects from also adding. Then extinguish. (Edit) Examples: - Google and RSS - Slack and IRC - Google (chrome) and web standards - Apple (iMessage) and SMS
    - qualeed 1y ago
      What type of feature, and how would they prevent other projects? I'm happy that there's a non-algorithmic feed in a Meta app. I think that's good for society. I'm not focused on how this means Meta will be the fediverse overlord in the future, once they release some fediverse-killing feature. When that time comes, I'll be sure to rally against it.
      - jdenning 1y ago
        I'm quite sure they'll think of something. I don't think most people could have predicted that apple using an "ugly" color to represent non-iOS messages would have such a strong effect. But apple knew, and they were right. Edit: To be fair - "extinguish" is not entirely accurate..RSS, IRC, etc still exist - they're just ghost towns.
        1y ago
- Barrin92 1y ago
  can people stop bringing up this thought terminating cliche every five minutes, it's like the HN version of that quip about Rudy Guliani, "everything he says is a verb a noun and 9/11." Any open protocol will always be subject to competition, that's the point of it being open. If someone adopts that protocol and supercedes it because they add stuff that people want, that's how it goes. If people don't want that to happen, they need to stay on their toes and extend protocols quickly driven by user demand. That's really why a lot of protocol based ecosystems get absorbed, they stagnate.
  - bix6 1y ago
    It’s not a cliche if it’s the truth homie. We all know Meta’s intentions.
    - jdenning 1y ago
      This ^. Gravity isn't a cliche, it's just how the world works.
      - Barrin92 1y ago
        but you don't blame gravity when someone pushes you off your bike. The point isn't that it's not real, it is that you decided the rules of the game when you built a protocol. It's like publishing something under a permissive license and then complaining if someone clones your code and does something with it you don't like. if you didn't want it, you should have built a proprietary platform. If you create something under conditions that by definition must be robust enough to repel adversial use and it doesn't, what's the point in blaming the bad actor
        jdenning 1y ago
        That's fair, and I'm not "blaming" meta for anything here. They're well within their rights to EEE ActivityPub, but I think it's naive to complain about people calling it out. This new is only really relevant to people who care about Fediverse content, and I see two potential responses from that group: 1) Yay! That's great that meta is helping popularize Fediverse! 2) It's a trap. I'm in camp (2) - just trying to show people the trap before they step in it. It doesn't matter anyway, these kind of warnings have never, ever worked. Just let the old man shake his fist at the clouds FFS :) Where else am I supposed to do it? Threads?

fsflover 1y ago

Meta can still choose in which order they show those posts...

qualeed 1y ago
As stated in the article, for now at least, they wont be.
- 9dev 1y ago
  They also promised there’ll never be ads on WhatsApp. Whatever statement Meta makes isn’t worth the paper it’s printed on.
  - qualeed 1y ago
    Non-algorithmic feeds are a good thing. That sums up my feelings. When that changes, or it gets plastered in ads, my feelings will be "well that was good while it lasted". Until then, I'm choosing not to doom say about it.

bix6 1y ago

Are you familiar with embrace, extend, extinguish?

qualeed 1y ago
Sure. I'm also familiar with positive reinforcement. If/when they start touching the reverse-chronological feed with algorithms I'll call it out. Until that time, I'm happy that it's a non-algorithmic feed and will say so. (It's also not clear to me what "extinguish" would look like here. If Threads starts messing with the feed, just go view it anywhere else you view you fediverse feeds)
- foogazi 1y ago
  > I'll call it out What’s the point if the algorithm buries it
- jdenning 1y ago
  Extinguish comes after extend -- eg, the goal is to make their client the preferred client for fediverse feeds for a large number of people by adding some kind of feature that they can prevent fediverse projects from also adding. Then extinguish. (Edit) Examples: - Google and RSS - Slack and IRC - Google (chrome) and web standards - Apple (iMessage) and SMS
  - qualeed 1y ago
    What type of feature, and how would they prevent other projects? I'm happy that there's a non-algorithmic feed in a Meta app. I think that's good for society. I'm not focused on how this means Meta will be the fediverse overlord in the future, once they release some fediverse-killing feature. When that time comes, I'll be sure to rally against it.
    - jdenning 1y ago
      I'm quite sure they'll think of something. I don't think most people could have predicted that apple using an "ugly" color to represent non-iOS messages would have such a strong effect. But apple knew, and they were right. Edit: To be fair - "extinguish" is not entirely accurate..RSS, IRC, etc still exist - they're just ghost towns.
      - 1y ago
Barrin92 1y ago
can people stop bringing up this thought terminating cliche every five minutes, it's like the HN version of that quip about Rudy Guliani, "everything he says is a verb a noun and 9/11." Any open protocol will always be subject to competition, that's the point of it being open. If someone adopts that protocol and supercedes it because they add stuff that people want, that's how it goes. If people don't want that to happen, they need to stay on their toes and extend protocols quickly driven by user demand. That's really why a lot of protocol based ecosystems get absorbed, they stagnate.
- bix6 1y ago
  It’s not a cliche if it’s the truth homie. We all know Meta’s intentions.
  - jdenning 1y ago
    This ^. Gravity isn't a cliche, it's just how the world works.
    - Barrin92 1y ago
      but you don't blame gravity when someone pushes you off your bike. The point isn't that it's not real, it is that you decided the rules of the game when you built a protocol. It's like publishing something under a permissive license and then complaining if someone clones your code and does something with it you don't like. if you didn't want it, you should have built a proprietary platform. If you create something under conditions that by definition must be robust enough to repel adversial use and it doesn't, what's the point in blaming the bad actor
      - jdenning 1y ago
        That's fair, and I'm not "blaming" meta for anything here. They're well within their rights to EEE ActivityPub, but I think it's naive to complain about people calling it out. This new is only really relevant to people who care about Fediverse content, and I see two potential responses from that group: 1) Yay! That's great that meta is helping popularize Fediverse! 2) It's a trap. I'm in camp (2) - just trying to show people the trap before they step in it. It doesn't matter anyway, these kind of warnings have never, ever worked. Just let the old man shake his fist at the clouds FFS :) Where else am I supposed to do it? Threads?