8 ms·

Yeah, in a nation like USA (or actually anywhere, but let's be realistic) no one should die because they can't afford a standard treatment. I am from Italy and

Yeah, in a nation like USA (or actually anywhere, but let's be realistic) no one should die because they can't afford a standard treatment. I am from Italy and the first times I couldn't believe it.

Peaker 14y ago
According to the movie "Sicko", the doctors working in the Health Maintenance Organizations are being told: "You are not preventing care, you are preventing payment" as they are encouraged to deny as many requests as they can.
wisty 14y ago
The danger is that people will over-use the public system. Governments can solve this by offering a really bad customer experience (Soviet architecture, putting an experienced nurse at the front desk rather than a cute 20-year-old girl, bad food, less choices, and so on). People often prefer private hospitals, even when public hospitals offer superior treatment. This takes the load off the public system, allowing it to serve the people who need it.
- justin66 14y ago
  > The danger is that people will over-use the public system. How does that work exactly? I'm trying to think of how I could even deliberately overuse health care, in the event that I decided health care were something desirable rather than something I tend to avoid because it's boring. The best I can come up with would be to hit myself with a hammer occasionally, necessitating treatment of the injury. I'm not sure why people with a public system would deliberately do something like that. I'm not really trying to be facetious. This seems to be one of the ways in which health care isn't like any consumer product: people really do not want as much of it as they can get. In terms of preventative medicine, just getting them to use it can be quite a chore. In terms of treatment of disease or injury, I don't see how using it for its intended purpose qualifies as "overuse."
  - sp332 14y ago
    Ordering unnecessary scans or tests; being prescribed medicine you don't really need like antibiotics, painkillers, or antidepressants; demanding second/third/fourth opinions.
    - Someone 14y ago
      In a public system, patients cannot order scans or tests; that is the doctor to judge. Also, ideally, a doctor isn't paid more if he orders more tests/does more work. One thing people can and will do is not so much 'demanding second opinions', but 'revisiting the same doctor to get reassured'. The latter does not have to be that expensive, if the cultural norms are OK. There are countries with costly culture where a visit to a doctor must end with a prescription or treatment. In other countries, patients leave happily with the message "it does not look broken and it isn't infected; if the swelling does not go away in two weeks, come back"
  - lgbr 14y ago
    This is actually a common problem with what is, in practice, an already socialized portion of American healthcare: Emergency Rooms Since emergency rooms cannot turn patients away, there are a lot of people to come to the emergency rooms for things like pains in their big toe, menstrual cramps, and so on. This is why the emergency room is so absurdly expensive in the United States. Health care here really isn't very expensive so long as you go nowhere near the emergency room. Sources: http://www.thenewstribune.com/2011/09/25/1839726/state-decides-whats-not-a-medical.html http://www.thenewstribune.com/2011/09/25/1839726/state-decid... http://www.bizjournals.com/albuquerque/print-edition/2011/09/23/urgency-or-emergency-ads-target-er.html?page=all http://www.bizjournals.com/albuquerque/print-edition/2011/09... http://birminghammedicalnews.com/news.php?viewStory=1275 http://birminghammedicalnews.com/news.php?viewStory=1275
    - neurotech1 14y ago
      Your blaming the patients, without considering the lack of primary care in the US. Some HMO "covered" Primary Care Providers(Physicians) have a 2-3 week wait for an appointment etc. Certain hospitals have "express care" or "urgent care" on premises, that will treat patients without insurance, same as the ER. Santa Clara Valley Medical Center has a pretty efficient "express care" clinic.

Yeah, in a nation like USA (or actually anywhere, but let's be realistic) no one should die because they can't afford a standard treatment. I am from Italy and the first times I couldn't believe it.

Peaker 14y ago

According to the movie "Sicko", the doctors working in the Health Maintenance Organizations are being told: "You are not preventing care, you are preventing payment" as they are encouraged to deny as many requests as they can.

wisty 14y ago

The danger is that people will over-use the public system. Governments can solve this by offering a really bad customer experience (Soviet architecture, putting an experienced nurse at the front desk rather than a cute 20-year-old girl, bad food, less choices, and so on). People often prefer private hospitals, even when public hospitals offer superior treatment. This takes the load off the public system, allowing it to serve the people who need it.

justin66 14y ago
> The danger is that people will over-use the public system. How does that work exactly? I'm trying to think of how I could even deliberately overuse health care, in the event that I decided health care were something desirable rather than something I tend to avoid because it's boring. The best I can come up with would be to hit myself with a hammer occasionally, necessitating treatment of the injury. I'm not sure why people with a public system would deliberately do something like that. I'm not really trying to be facetious. This seems to be one of the ways in which health care isn't like any consumer product: people really do not want as much of it as they can get. In terms of preventative medicine, just getting them to use it can be quite a chore. In terms of treatment of disease or injury, I don't see how using it for its intended purpose qualifies as "overuse."
- sp332 14y ago
  Ordering unnecessary scans or tests; being prescribed medicine you don't really need like antibiotics, painkillers, or antidepressants; demanding second/third/fourth opinions.
  - Someone 14y ago
    In a public system, patients cannot order scans or tests; that is the doctor to judge. Also, ideally, a doctor isn't paid more if he orders more tests/does more work. One thing people can and will do is not so much 'demanding second opinions', but 'revisiting the same doctor to get reassured'. The latter does not have to be that expensive, if the cultural norms are OK. There are countries with costly culture where a visit to a doctor must end with a prescription or treatment. In other countries, patients leave happily with the message "it does not look broken and it isn't infected; if the swelling does not go away in two weeks, come back"
- lgbr 14y ago
  This is actually a common problem with what is, in practice, an already socialized portion of American healthcare: Emergency Rooms Since emergency rooms cannot turn patients away, there are a lot of people to come to the emergency rooms for things like pains in their big toe, menstrual cramps, and so on. This is why the emergency room is so absurdly expensive in the United States. Health care here really isn't very expensive so long as you go nowhere near the emergency room. Sources: http://www.thenewstribune.com/2011/09/25/1839726/state-decides-whats-not-a-medical.html http://www.thenewstribune.com/2011/09/25/1839726/state-decid... http://www.bizjournals.com/albuquerque/print-edition/2011/09/23/urgency-or-emergency-ads-target-er.html?page=all http://www.bizjournals.com/albuquerque/print-edition/2011/09... http://birminghammedicalnews.com/news.php?viewStory=1275 http://birminghammedicalnews.com/news.php?viewStory=1275
  - neurotech1 14y ago
    Your blaming the patients, without considering the lack of primary care in the US. Some HMO "covered" Primary Care Providers(Physicians) have a 2-3 week wait for an appointment etc. Certain hospitals have "express care" or "urgent care" on premises, that will treat patients without insurance, same as the ER. Santa Clara Valley Medical Center has a pretty efficient "express care" clinic.