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> Win32 My thoughts exactly given the progress wine/proton is making; pretty much the only success story for Linux on the mainstream "desktop" (handheld) for o

> Win32 My thoughts exactly given the progress wine/proton is making; pretty much the only success story for Linux on the mainstream "desktop" (handheld) for over ten years. Though I'm not sure about the underlying infrastructure of SteamOS (Arch-based) and/or Bazzite (fedora-based); could well be Wayland raising its ugly head there, and I just don't see a new generation of developers or sponsors willing to invest into it.

pjmlp 1y ago
Which will only work as Windows XP Win32 is good enough for whatever people are doing, Valve is willing to sponsor the work, and Microsoft doesn't decide to do something that changes that. Like when then went down into netbooks, first blow was the cheap Windows XP licenses, followed by tablets wiping the remaining ones, as OEMs found a better deal selling tablets, keyboards and covers than keeping netbooks arounds, while pivoting such designs into the expensive ultra-light laptops segment. Microsoft only needs to use their weight as one of the biggest publishers in the market, one of the top three console vendors, and biggest gaming OS on desktop systems and game tournaments.
- tannhaeuser 1y ago
  Yeah you've got a point. What's the lesser evil though when the alternative is overconfident over-motivated junior devs refactoring stuff for the sake of it while breaking apps, not realising their work should be to support the precious few FOSS desktop apps we have that won't come back with no new ones in sight either, leading us into know how monopolisation. That attitude is showing right here with Wayland apologists getting defensive as in nothing wrong with Wayland, it's just a new "platform" lol. Same thing with programming language fetishists which is just a means to an end. The problem is that the next generation of developers want to have their fun and educational experience reinventing stuff, too; and who wants to blame them when that's just what the previous gen did.
  - gf000 1y ago
    This is just malicious, ignorant and plain falss towards the Wayland developers (which is by the way a very diverse group), whom are by all chance waay more experienced than you are. Also, fails to take into account that X has plenty of objective design failures, which is to be expected given GPUs didn't exist at the time of its invention.
    - pjmlp 1y ago
      GPUs did exist, maybe not what we know them today but exist did they. Assuming that the entry https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X_Window_System https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X_Window_System is correct, the initial release was in 1984. Amiga 500 Blitter, which is a baby step into GPU would become, is from 1987. Texas Instruments TMS34010 was released in 1986, being the very first programmable graphics processor, going beyond DMA programable ones like the Amiga 500's Agnus. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TMS34010 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TMS34010 While these jurassic GPUs could not be taken into account for X Window 1.0 design, by the time of X11R6 release, it was more than enough time to have had them into account. EDIT: reformating
      - snvzz 1y ago
        Why highlight A500's blitter? the original 1985 Amiga 1000 had a near-identical blitter, just different package. The first significant change was the ECS blitter much latter.
        pjmlp 1y ago
        Market share and awareness.

pjmlp 1y ago

Which will only work as Windows XP Win32 is good enough for whatever people are doing, Valve is willing to sponsor the work, and Microsoft doesn't decide to do something that changes that. Like when then went down into netbooks, first blow was the cheap Windows XP licenses, followed by tablets wiping the remaining ones, as OEMs found a better deal selling tablets, keyboards and covers than keeping netbooks arounds, while pivoting such designs into the expensive ultra-light laptops segment. Microsoft only needs to use their weight as one of the biggest publishers in the market, one of the top three console vendors, and biggest gaming OS on desktop systems and game tournaments.

tannhaeuser 1y ago
Yeah you've got a point. What's the lesser evil though when the alternative is overconfident over-motivated junior devs refactoring stuff for the sake of it while breaking apps, not realising their work should be to support the precious few FOSS desktop apps we have that won't come back with no new ones in sight either, leading us into know how monopolisation. That attitude is showing right here with Wayland apologists getting defensive as in nothing wrong with Wayland, it's just a new "platform" lol. Same thing with programming language fetishists which is just a means to an end. The problem is that the next generation of developers want to have their fun and educational experience reinventing stuff, too; and who wants to blame them when that's just what the previous gen did.
- gf000 1y ago
  This is just malicious, ignorant and plain falss towards the Wayland developers (which is by the way a very diverse group), whom are by all chance waay more experienced than you are. Also, fails to take into account that X has plenty of objective design failures, which is to be expected given GPUs didn't exist at the time of its invention.
  - pjmlp 1y ago
    GPUs did exist, maybe not what we know them today but exist did they. Assuming that the entry https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X_Window_System https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X_Window_System is correct, the initial release was in 1984. Amiga 500 Blitter, which is a baby step into GPU would become, is from 1987. Texas Instruments TMS34010 was released in 1986, being the very first programmable graphics processor, going beyond DMA programable ones like the Amiga 500's Agnus. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TMS34010 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TMS34010 While these jurassic GPUs could not be taken into account for X Window 1.0 design, by the time of X11R6 release, it was more than enough time to have had them into account. EDIT: reformating
    - snvzz 1y ago
      Why highlight A500's blitter? the original 1985 Amiga 1000 had a near-identical blitter, just different package. The first significant change was the ECS blitter much latter.
      - pjmlp 1y ago
        Market share and awareness.