4 ms·

Counter counter point: if you mess up your first time, it's likely you'll never be able to enjoy the experience.

netcan 1y ago
Continuation the counter points: most traditional uses, guided by shamans or priests use heavy doses. I had expiremented with moderate/recomended doses of lsd and psilocybin before participating in an auahuasca retreat... and the doses were shocking. This was a relatively tame centre in western Europe that had trained psych nurses in attendance. Still, the Shaman handed out monster doses... and offered a second one a couple of hours in... and again the following day. Many traditional practices conceive of "levels" corresponding to doses, and the lower levels are not the ones associated with transformative spiritual experience.
- teaearlgraycold 1y ago
  I know there are higher levels out there, but I’ve found even moderate doses of psychedelics to be more than enough to be transformative. You just need to focus the energy right.
  - netcan 1y ago
    valid point, just adding context. I have no recomendations of my own.
hoseja 1y ago
Counter counter counter point: That's a good outcome.
aleph_minus_one 1y ago
> Counter counter point: if you mess up your first time, it's likely you'll never be able to enjoy the experience. That's what drug prohibitionists would love to happen, so they should encourage such a "wrong" experiment instead of prosecuting it. :-)
dmos62 1y ago
Might be true for some, but I had a long series of bad experiences when I was a teenager (tension and paranoia), was convinced that it wasn't for me, and only in my 30s I started having very profound and positive experiences. Now I only experiment alone, in a non-distracted, aware, self-reflective manner, as if it were a meditation aide.
- monista 1y ago
  And it's a very bad practice. No experiment ever should be taken without an assistant (sitter in this case).
  - lioeters 1y ago
    Bad advice. Yes there should be at least one other person who knows what you're doing, but if you're experienced in the matter, solitude is the best practice. The emergency contact person could be a phone call away, just in case.
    - esseph 1y ago
      "I know what I'm doing" said the victim before they died.
    - peebeebee 1y ago
      problem is that when you are really in deep, you are not able to make that phone call. It is good advice to always take someone with you. It is like saying: more experienced bikers don't need to wear helmet. Yes, 99.99% of the time things will be fine, but it's still good advice to always wear one. Because that 0.01% can lead to severe consequences.
      - esseph 1y ago
        Exactly. Unexpected things happen, mental states swing, and now you're in a mentally compromised state in-between reality.
  - 1y ago

Continuation the counter points: most traditional uses, guided by shamans or priests use heavy doses. I had expiremented with moderate/recomended doses of lsd and psilocybin before participating in an auahuasca retreat... and the doses were shocking. This was a relatively tame centre in western Europe that had trained psych nurses in attendance. Still, the Shaman handed out monster doses... and offered a second one a couple of hours in... and again the following day. Many traditional practices conceive of "levels" corresponding to doses, and the lower levels are not the ones associated with transformative spiritual experience.

teaearlgraycold 1y ago
I know there are higher levels out there, but I’ve found even moderate doses of psychedelics to be more than enough to be transformative. You just need to focus the energy right.
- netcan 1y ago
  valid point, just adding context. I have no recomendations of my own.

hoseja 1y ago

Counter counter counter point: That's a good outcome.

aleph_minus_one 1y ago

> Counter counter point: if you mess up your first time, it's likely you'll never be able to enjoy the experience. That's what drug prohibitionists would love to happen, so they should encourage such a "wrong" experiment instead of prosecuting it. :-)

dmos62 1y ago

Might be true for some, but I had a long series of bad experiences when I was a teenager (tension and paranoia), was convinced that it wasn't for me, and only in my 30s I started having very profound and positive experiences. Now I only experiment alone, in a non-distracted, aware, self-reflective manner, as if it were a meditation aide.

monista 1y ago
And it's a very bad practice. No experiment ever should be taken without an assistant (sitter in this case).
- lioeters 1y ago
  Bad advice. Yes there should be at least one other person who knows what you're doing, but if you're experienced in the matter, solitude is the best practice. The emergency contact person could be a phone call away, just in case.
  - esseph 1y ago
    "I know what I'm doing" said the victim before they died.
  - peebeebee 1y ago
    problem is that when you are really in deep, you are not able to make that phone call. It is good advice to always take someone with you. It is like saying: more experienced bikers don't need to wear helmet. Yes, 99.99% of the time things will be fine, but it's still good advice to always wear one. Because that 0.01% can lead to severe consequences.
    - esseph 1y ago
      Exactly. Unexpected things happen, mental states swing, and now you're in a mentally compromised state in-between reality.
- 1y ago