4 ms·

It happens to run on billions of devices, after corporations realized they can profit from "a (free) operating system (just a hobby, won't be big and profession

It happens to run on billions of devices, after corporations realized they can profit from "a (free) operating system (just a hobby, won't be big and professional like gnu)". > and is maintained by people around the world of all types. You seem to think that the whole world shares your definition of "polite". After living in a few quite different countries, I have to disagree. The diversity out there is huge. There's no point trying to solve this "problem", it's an impossible task.

perching_aix 1y ago
> It happens to run on billions of devices, after corporations realized they can profit from "a (free) operating system (just a hobby, won't be big and professional like gnu)" While hordes of people peddle that everyone should be using it like gospel. > After living in a few quite different countries, I have to disagree. Yeah dude, tell us about all the countries where cursing isn't impolite and unprofessional.
- vlovich123 1y ago
  While in formal professional settings it is rarer (and swearing at each other vs about a thing is generally always impolite) Russia, Australia, Iceland, Scandinavian countries generally have fewer issues inherently treating swearing as impolite vs a strong expression of emotion. There’s even a comic about how common swearing is in a professional coding environment: https://www.osnews.com/story/19266/wtfsm/ https://www.osnews.com/story/19266/wtfsm/
- koverstreet 1y ago
  > While hordes of people peddle that everyone should be using it like gospel. You don't get that kind of widespread usage by mere faddism and preaching. A lot of people had to find it to be genuinely better than the alternatives. Maybe the unprofessional hackers knew what they were doing after all.
  - perching_aix 1y ago
    Not consistently mutually exclusive. I consider Linux awful, but that doesn't mean I'd advise us to migrate to Windows Server.
    - koverstreet 1y ago
      So... you badmouth Linux, in a thread about politeness, and you don't even have anything positive to say about anything? That's some delicious irony.
      - perching_aix 1y ago
        Maybe you thinking that false positive remarks are a necessary part to politeness is your real issue with it? Ironic in its own way, although at this point I'm just consumed by the despair.
        koverstreet 1y ago
        No, but I do think that generic badmouthing adds nothing to the discussion. Saying that you think Linux is awful without saying why is just... vacuous. It's pointless complaining.
        perching_aix 1y ago
        So it has nothing to do with politeness then? > awful without saying why Why would I need to elaborate? You expressed that a lot of people hold it in high regard, I expressed I don't. That was exactly the extent I wanted to address it and I think it's a perfectly reasonable stopping point. I don't need to explain myself about my own impressions. To the extent it was relevant, I played along and that's it.
- shaky-carrousel 1y ago
  Hello from Spain, you cultural colonialist. Here it is pretty typical to curse in professional environments.
  - perching_aix 1y ago
    Just typical? There are places where writing down passwords to post-it notes is typical too, doesn't make it very professional, not without a great deal of sarcasm at the very least, or some good old bikeshedding about semantics. > you cultural colonialist Well at least you got that part of your insult quota completed for the day. People throw around terms like "colonialist" way too easy these days. One would think if colonialism of any kind, geopolitical or cultural, was so important to you, you wouldn't so casually dispense it. Or is this part of your professionalism too and I'm just being given a taste? Gotta say, pretty weird though, the Spaniards I work with are normal people who can distinguish just fine when it is appropriate to use foul language (like in informal discussions between colleagues or even to clients) and when it is not appropriate (like in codebases or in formal business communications). Maybe you just work somewhere where the standards are low? I know that a lot of our own small / medium sized companies usually have such poor standards too, frequently accompanied by e.g. using native language identifiers instead of English ones. Product quality usually correlates, though not always and not consistently. Doesn't make me want to call the practice any more professional here, everyone understands that this is subpar lowbrow behavior.
    - shaky-carrousel 1y ago
      > Just typical? There are places where writing down passwords to post-it notes is typical too, doesn't make it very professional... Nice, now with extra patronizing, just the flavor we inferior cultures apparently crave. > Gotta say, pretty weird though, the Spaniards I work with are normal people who can distinguish just fine... Ah yes, the Spaniards you work with. Let me guess, you can count them on one hand, right? > Maybe you just work somewhere where the standards are low? And there's the second scoop of condescension. Maybe I just work in real places with real Spaniards, not in whatever sanitized fantasy you’ve constructed. Let’s be clear: I've been working in Spain for nearly 25 years. Cursing is common here. It’s a cultural norm, not some "unprofessional lapse" waiting to be corrected by the wisdom of outside standards. If you'd ever had an honest, open conversation with one of your Spanish coworkers (the kind where people don't filter themselves for fear of offending delicate American sensibilities) you might have figured that out.
wat10000 1y ago
There's huge diversity out there in coding styles as well, but I'd be rightfully derided or ignored if I suggested that meant that Linux shouldn't have a style guide. For some reason, "tabs are banned" and "curly braces must be on their own line" are acceptable rules, but "no curse words" is Oppressive Corporate Soullessness.
squigz 1y ago
> You seem to think that the whole world shares your definition of "polite" Doesn't the opposite hold true? That is, assuming the whole word feels the same way about swear words?

perching_aix 1y ago

> It happens to run on billions of devices, after corporations realized they can profit from "a (free) operating system (just a hobby, won't be big and professional like gnu)" While hordes of people peddle that everyone should be using it like gospel. > After living in a few quite different countries, I have to disagree. Yeah dude, tell us about all the countries where cursing isn't impolite and unprofessional.

vlovich123 1y ago
While in formal professional settings it is rarer (and swearing at each other vs about a thing is generally always impolite) Russia, Australia, Iceland, Scandinavian countries generally have fewer issues inherently treating swearing as impolite vs a strong expression of emotion. There’s even a comic about how common swearing is in a professional coding environment: https://www.osnews.com/story/19266/wtfsm/ https://www.osnews.com/story/19266/wtfsm/
koverstreet 1y ago
> While hordes of people peddle that everyone should be using it like gospel. You don't get that kind of widespread usage by mere faddism and preaching. A lot of people had to find it to be genuinely better than the alternatives. Maybe the unprofessional hackers knew what they were doing after all.
- perching_aix 1y ago
  Not consistently mutually exclusive. I consider Linux awful, but that doesn't mean I'd advise us to migrate to Windows Server.
  - koverstreet 1y ago
    So... you badmouth Linux, in a thread about politeness, and you don't even have anything positive to say about anything? That's some delicious irony.
    - perching_aix 1y ago
      Maybe you thinking that false positive remarks are a necessary part to politeness is your real issue with it? Ironic in its own way, although at this point I'm just consumed by the despair.
      - koverstreet 1y ago
        No, but I do think that generic badmouthing adds nothing to the discussion. Saying that you think Linux is awful without saying why is just... vacuous. It's pointless complaining.
        perching_aix 1y ago
        So it has nothing to do with politeness then? > awful without saying why Why would I need to elaborate? You expressed that a lot of people hold it in high regard, I expressed I don't. That was exactly the extent I wanted to address it and I think it's a perfectly reasonable stopping point. I don't need to explain myself about my own impressions. To the extent it was relevant, I played along and that's it.
shaky-carrousel 1y ago
Hello from Spain, you cultural colonialist. Here it is pretty typical to curse in professional environments.
- perching_aix 1y ago
  Just typical? There are places where writing down passwords to post-it notes is typical too, doesn't make it very professional, not without a great deal of sarcasm at the very least, or some good old bikeshedding about semantics. > you cultural colonialist Well at least you got that part of your insult quota completed for the day. People throw around terms like "colonialist" way too easy these days. One would think if colonialism of any kind, geopolitical or cultural, was so important to you, you wouldn't so casually dispense it. Or is this part of your professionalism too and I'm just being given a taste? Gotta say, pretty weird though, the Spaniards I work with are normal people who can distinguish just fine when it is appropriate to use foul language (like in informal discussions between colleagues or even to clients) and when it is not appropriate (like in codebases or in formal business communications). Maybe you just work somewhere where the standards are low? I know that a lot of our own small / medium sized companies usually have such poor standards too, frequently accompanied by e.g. using native language identifiers instead of English ones. Product quality usually correlates, though not always and not consistently. Doesn't make me want to call the practice any more professional here, everyone understands that this is subpar lowbrow behavior.
  - shaky-carrousel 1y ago
    > Just typical? There are places where writing down passwords to post-it notes is typical too, doesn't make it very professional... Nice, now with extra patronizing, just the flavor we inferior cultures apparently crave. > Gotta say, pretty weird though, the Spaniards I work with are normal people who can distinguish just fine... Ah yes, the Spaniards you work with. Let me guess, you can count them on one hand, right? > Maybe you just work somewhere where the standards are low? And there's the second scoop of condescension. Maybe I just work in real places with real Spaniards, not in whatever sanitized fantasy you’ve constructed. Let’s be clear: I've been working in Spain for nearly 25 years. Cursing is common here. It’s a cultural norm, not some "unprofessional lapse" waiting to be corrected by the wisdom of outside standards. If you'd ever had an honest, open conversation with one of your Spanish coworkers (the kind where people don't filter themselves for fear of offending delicate American sensibilities) you might have figured that out.

wat10000 1y ago

There's huge diversity out there in coding styles as well, but I'd be rightfully derided or ignored if I suggested that meant that Linux shouldn't have a style guide. For some reason, "tabs are banned" and "curly braces must be on their own line" are acceptable rules, but "no curse words" is Oppressive Corporate Soullessness.

squigz 1y ago

> You seem to think that the whole world shares your definition of "polite" Doesn't the opposite hold true? That is, assuming the whole word feels the same way about swear words?