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Why would universities need Oracle Java specifically?

gavinsyancey 1y ago
Because some students (or teachers), not knowing any better, downloaded it / are using it on the university network. The university has no idea who and no real way to get them to stop.
- HPsquared 1y ago
  Am I right in thinking this resembles the the "bracelet scam"? A person (in this case a big company) gives you something, acts like it's free, then demands money.
  - lmz 1y ago
    There's are that are allowed and there are uses that are not allowed by the free license. Not sure how this is different from companies offering e.g. a free database, as long as you don't use it to offer hosting and compete with them.
    - lyu07282 1y ago
      [flagged]
      - lmz 1y ago
        Just saying that "free for certain purposes only with a possible lawsuit for using it in a way we don't like" isn't exclusively an Oracle invention.
    - tsimionescu 1y ago
      It's not, it's just generally a deceptive business practice. And while others may be doing it in good faith, it's very very very well established by now that Oracle is not. They very specifically do things this way, knowing that it will make it impossible for large orgs to police this, and can then extract money from the org, whether it's really owed or not.
rwmj 1y ago
I've worked in this sector (not at a university specifically, but a scientific lab in the UK). There are going to be two main issues here. First off, many researchers from other institutions come on site and they'll be downloading and using whatever software they are used to with no controls whatsoever. These scientists basically act independently of the institution, in some cases not even having the same line management and being paid by someone else. Secondly they get site licenses for a lot of what would normally be extremely expensive software (think CAD packages, EDA) for very low prices because of their educational status. If I was to guess, some of this uses Oracle Java. They won't have good tracking around what software is or was used where. This all gives them an open-ended liability if Oracle come knocking, as apparently they did, so they'll be keen to remove "legal uncertainty" by paying the Danegeld.
inkyoto 1y ago
Universities do not need Java per se, leave alone Oracle Java. Other than uninformed, spurious Oracle JDK downloads, what usually happens is an academic or a faculty have purchased an app or a software product in the past that performs features A, B and C important to them[0], and that app or product, unbeknownst to them, bundles the Oracle JDK/JRE in. The Lord of Java has now trapped their butts and demands that universities fork out quiet a bit as Oracle wants a per student licence fee for each such app, even if it is just one faculty who uses the app. [0] Or at least they think so – software duplication is a rampant problem in universities due to oftentimes poor architectural governance and oversight.
- PeterStuer 1y ago
  Wouldn't an app that bundels Oracle's Java runtime need a redistribution license?
  - inkyoto 1y ago
    I think the licence is only valid for the most recent version of Java (I can't remember whether it applies to the JDK only or to the JRE as well), which forces users either to keep on upgrading the Java version (not easily possible for 3rd party software) or to pay up. We went through a mad rush of replacing Sun/Oracle Java with Amazon Corretto a few years back at a very large organisation when it became clear that Oracle won't let us off the hook easily. Most old applications that could not be upgraded to Corretto were promptly culled.

Because some students (or teachers), not knowing any better, downloaded it / are using it on the university network. The university has no idea who and no real way to get them to stop.

HPsquared 1y ago
Am I right in thinking this resembles the the "bracelet scam"? A person (in this case a big company) gives you something, acts like it's free, then demands money.
- lmz 1y ago
  There's are that are allowed and there are uses that are not allowed by the free license. Not sure how this is different from companies offering e.g. a free database, as long as you don't use it to offer hosting and compete with them.
  - lyu07282 1y ago
    [flagged]
    - lmz 1y ago
      Just saying that "free for certain purposes only with a possible lawsuit for using it in a way we don't like" isn't exclusively an Oracle invention.
  - tsimionescu 1y ago
    It's not, it's just generally a deceptive business practice. And while others may be doing it in good faith, it's very very very well established by now that Oracle is not. They very specifically do things this way, knowing that it will make it impossible for large orgs to police this, and can then extract money from the org, whether it's really owed or not.

rwmj 1y ago

I've worked in this sector (not at a university specifically, but a scientific lab in the UK). There are going to be two main issues here. First off, many researchers from other institutions come on site and they'll be downloading and using whatever software they are used to with no controls whatsoever. These scientists basically act independently of the institution, in some cases not even having the same line management and being paid by someone else. Secondly they get site licenses for a lot of what would normally be extremely expensive software (think CAD packages, EDA) for very low prices because of their educational status. If I was to guess, some of this uses Oracle Java. They won't have good tracking around what software is or was used where. This all gives them an open-ended liability if Oracle come knocking, as apparently they did, so they'll be keen to remove "legal uncertainty" by paying the Danegeld.

inkyoto 1y ago

Universities do not need Java per se, leave alone Oracle Java. Other than uninformed, spurious Oracle JDK downloads, what usually happens is an academic or a faculty have purchased an app or a software product in the past that performs features A, B and C important to them[0], and that app or product, unbeknownst to them, bundles the Oracle JDK/JRE in. The Lord of Java has now trapped their butts and demands that universities fork out quiet a bit as Oracle wants a per student licence fee for each such app, even if it is just one faculty who uses the app. [0] Or at least they think so – software duplication is a rampant problem in universities due to oftentimes poor architectural governance and oversight.

PeterStuer 1y ago
Wouldn't an app that bundels Oracle's Java runtime need a redistribution license?
- inkyoto 1y ago
  I think the licence is only valid for the most recent version of Java (I can't remember whether it applies to the JDK only or to the JRE as well), which forces users either to keep on upgrading the Java version (not easily possible for 3rd party software) or to pay up. We went through a mad rush of replacing Sun/Oracle Java with Amazon Corretto a few years back at a very large organisation when it became clear that Oracle won't let us off the hook easily. Most old applications that could not be upgraded to Corretto were promptly culled.