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Yeah, the brain obviously has types of circuits and networks that are doing things llms don't do, they have timing, and rhythm, and extremely complex feedback l

Yeah, the brain obviously has types of circuits and networks that are doing things llms don't do, they have timing, and rhythm, and extremely complex feedback loops, there's no justification to call llms sentient. But all the people trying to say they're categorically different are wrong. Brains process sequential electrical signals from the senses, and send sequential signals to the muscles. That's it. The fact that modern neural networks can trivially shift modes from audio, language, image, video, 3d or any other symbolic representation is obviously a significant development and something significant has happened in our understanding of intelligence.

bluefirebrand 1y ago
> Brains process sequential electrical signals from the senses, and send sequential signals to the muscles. That's it. Not a neuroscientist but this seems like a vast oversimplification to me based on what I've read For one thing, the brain isn't sequential. There's a ton of parallel operations in there It also isn't a purely electrical network either, there's tons of chemicals involved It sounds so easy to compare it to an electrical network but it really, truly is much more complex
- Workaccount2 1y ago
  Not to nitpick, but the chemicals are ultimately just modulators of the electronic circuits.
  - bluefirebrand 1y ago
    I suppose, but I think the important part is that they ultimately make the circuit pretty non-deterministic and difficult to predict, which is not really a feature that we normally expect a circuit to have
  - ninetyninenine 1y ago
    No this is not true. There is literally physical space between dendrites and neurons where chemicals called neurotransmitters are released then receptors pick up the chemicals. So the pathway through the brain is not purely electrical. That being said I agree with your overall point as it’s just signals and systems and how the mechanism works is irrelevant to the fact that everything can be modelled by a neuron.
- tracerbulletx 1y ago
  Time is sequential. The inputs and outputs are sequential. The processing is not sequential. In fact it can be spatial, binaural hearing works because of the precise length of the neuronal path between the ears and a processing area. We know a lot about the brain, many neural networks are based on well described brain regions. It is both true that our existing neural networks are no where near as complex as the brain, and ALSO that they share many similarities and are functionally doing basically the same type of thing.
  - bluefirebrand 1y ago
    > Time is sequential This is the sort of statement that seems like it is trivially true but I'm really not sure we can be so certain I agree that the way humans experience time makes it seem like it must be sequential, and a lot of our science would be really messed up if time weren't sequential in the grand scheme That said, aren't there some doubts about this? I'm no expert but my understanding is that some quantum theories suggest time is not as linear as we think
ninetyninenine 1y ago
Both the human brain and LLMs can be characterized as a best fit curve. It’s just the algorithm to render that curve is different. There are similarities and there are differences and in both cases we fundamentally don’t understand what’s going on beyond the analogy of a best fit curve.

bluefirebrand 1y ago

> Brains process sequential electrical signals from the senses, and send sequential signals to the muscles. That's it. Not a neuroscientist but this seems like a vast oversimplification to me based on what I've read For one thing, the brain isn't sequential. There's a ton of parallel operations in there It also isn't a purely electrical network either, there's tons of chemicals involved It sounds so easy to compare it to an electrical network but it really, truly is much more complex

Workaccount2 1y ago
Not to nitpick, but the chemicals are ultimately just modulators of the electronic circuits.
- bluefirebrand 1y ago
  I suppose, but I think the important part is that they ultimately make the circuit pretty non-deterministic and difficult to predict, which is not really a feature that we normally expect a circuit to have
- ninetyninenine 1y ago
  No this is not true. There is literally physical space between dendrites and neurons where chemicals called neurotransmitters are released then receptors pick up the chemicals. So the pathway through the brain is not purely electrical. That being said I agree with your overall point as it’s just signals and systems and how the mechanism works is irrelevant to the fact that everything can be modelled by a neuron.
tracerbulletx 1y ago
Time is sequential. The inputs and outputs are sequential. The processing is not sequential. In fact it can be spatial, binaural hearing works because of the precise length of the neuronal path between the ears and a processing area. We know a lot about the brain, many neural networks are based on well described brain regions. It is both true that our existing neural networks are no where near as complex as the brain, and ALSO that they share many similarities and are functionally doing basically the same type of thing.
- bluefirebrand 1y ago
  > Time is sequential This is the sort of statement that seems like it is trivially true but I'm really not sure we can be so certain I agree that the way humans experience time makes it seem like it must be sequential, and a lot of our science would be really messed up if time weren't sequential in the grand scheme That said, aren't there some doubts about this? I'm no expert but my understanding is that some quantum theories suggest time is not as linear as we think

ninetyninenine 1y ago

Both the human brain and LLMs can be characterized as a best fit curve. It’s just the algorithm to render that curve is different. There are similarities and there are differences and in both cases we fundamentally don’t understand what’s going on beyond the analogy of a best fit curve.