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>The origin of "the problem" is 1920/1924 when 1200 years of Islamic rule ended in that area, and non-muslims no longer lived under apartheid The missing piece

by ty6853 1y ago

>The origin of "the problem" is 1920/1924 when 1200 years of Islamic rule ended in that area, and non-muslims no longer lived under apartheid The missing piece here is that happened because of the European support and implementation of Jewish settlement. The zionists had actually initially considered Argentina, which had constitutional provisions that would have lended well to establishing a Jewish community there, peacefully. Instead they chose the more violent approach in the middle east. If the Arabs had pushed back harder initially, the Zionists would have quickly just went to their alternative. This accident of history ended up being the difference between the ongoing bloodfued we see now and the much happier alternative.

whodidntante 1y ago
Interesting. I provided three facts and an opinion that 1200 years of rule created a mindset that would not allow for the independence of those considered "inferior". You also realize that this 1200 year rule was based on violent conquest, slavery, ethnic cleaning, genocide, and apartheid. Your response is all conjecture and assumptions. There is no reason that there could not have been peace with two states in 1947. Other homelands, such as as Argentina and Uganda, were considered backups, not as primaries, in case things did not go well and Jews needed a safe haven. This is because living in the mideast under Muslim rule for Jews is not safe. It has not been safe for 1200 years. And I agree, if the Arabs won, there would not be bloodshed in the mideast because there would be no Jews left, so I will give you that. I would not call it "happier". Tell me, if the United States falls apart (not so unlikely), and numerous states formed, would you think it is a good idea for the Native Americans to leave for another part of the world because a bunch of racists here in the US could not accept them having a state of their own and would declare war on them ? Of course not, Native Americans were here long before Europeans came and brutally ruled over them. The Jews were in the middle east before Islam came into being, and were brutally oppressed by those that follow Islam for 1200 years.
- DSingularity 1y ago
  Stop trying to revise history. The Jews in Palestine were living happily alongside the Muslims. Problems didn’t start until the European Jews arrived to implement Zionism. The end of Ottoman Empire was decades before Zionist terrorists founded Israel (Lehi, Irgun, Haganah). These are facts. Israel was founded on theft and by ethnically cleansing Palestine of its indigenous people through non-stop atrocities and terrorism. Literally most of Israel’s first prime-minister were terrorists. Even Jews like Einstein recognized this at the time and refused to be associated with the Zionist project. Just admit it and then it becomes possible to find a solution that doesn’t require murdering tens of thousands of Palestinian children to ethnically cleanse Palestinians that won’t give up their right to return.
  - yyyk 1y ago
    >The Jews in Palestine were living happily alongside the Muslims. Sure. Just one example: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Safed_massacre https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Safed_massacre Must be an accident the most Right-wing Israeli voting block is composed exactly of the Jews who were living with Muslims. >Einstein... refused to be associated with the Zionist project. Well, not exactly: https://www.britannica.com/story/the-time-albert-einstein-was-asked-to-be-president-of-israel https://www.britannica.com/story/the-time-albert-einstein-wa... >Just admit it To get close to a shared narrative, there's a need to connection to reality first... It can't be built on lies.
    - DSingularity 1y ago
      You stop lying. He did not support the establishment of a Jewish state to rule by violence and terrorism over a majority that is non-Jewish. Read his own words: https://www.shapell.org/manuscript/einstein-zionist-views-in-1946/#transcripts https://www.shapell.org/manuscript/einstein-zionist-views-in...
      - whodidntante 1y ago
        You seem to have a mindset that prevents you from perceiving reality. Israel is a country where all of its people live peacefully with each other according to the same rules, including the 20% of its population is Arab. The problem Israel has is not between its citizens, which is the most diverse group of people in the entire middle east. Arabs and Jews can live peacefully together, they currently do so in Israel, and while Jews are the majority, they do not rule the Arab minority with violence or terrorism or by imposing on them a different set of rules or laws. The Arabs in Gaza, which is not Israel, on the other hand, live in abysmal conditions, one that I would not wish upon anyone. Unfortunately, they have been indoctrinated from birth to hate Jews by their leaders, and leaders of other countries. They hate Jews more than they love themselves. They have clearly stated on many occasions that their intention is to destroy Israel and kill its Jews. For half of the past 80 years, Arabs in Gaza have had their freedom - from 1947 to 1967 and from 2005 to 2025. Both times they chose to use that time not to better themselves, but to arm themselves to fight Israel. This is not about being Jewish or Arab, it is about the sane and the insane.

by ty6853 1y ago

whodidntante 1y ago

Interesting. I provided three facts and an opinion that 1200 years of rule created a mindset that would not allow for the independence of those considered "inferior". You also realize that this 1200 year rule was based on violent conquest, slavery, ethnic cleaning, genocide, and apartheid. Your response is all conjecture and assumptions. There is no reason that there could not have been peace with two states in 1947. Other homelands, such as as Argentina and Uganda, were considered backups, not as primaries, in case things did not go well and Jews needed a safe haven. This is because living in the mideast under Muslim rule for Jews is not safe. It has not been safe for 1200 years. And I agree, if the Arabs won, there would not be bloodshed in the mideast because there would be no Jews left, so I will give you that. I would not call it "happier". Tell me, if the United States falls apart (not so unlikely), and numerous states formed, would you think it is a good idea for the Native Americans to leave for another part of the world because a bunch of racists here in the US could not accept them having a state of their own and would declare war on them ? Of course not, Native Americans were here long before Europeans came and brutally ruled over them. The Jews were in the middle east before Islam came into being, and were brutally oppressed by those that follow Islam for 1200 years.

DSingularity 1y ago
Stop trying to revise history. The Jews in Palestine were living happily alongside the Muslims. Problems didn’t start until the European Jews arrived to implement Zionism. The end of Ottoman Empire was decades before Zionist terrorists founded Israel (Lehi, Irgun, Haganah). These are facts. Israel was founded on theft and by ethnically cleansing Palestine of its indigenous people through non-stop atrocities and terrorism. Literally most of Israel’s first prime-minister were terrorists. Even Jews like Einstein recognized this at the time and refused to be associated with the Zionist project. Just admit it and then it becomes possible to find a solution that doesn’t require murdering tens of thousands of Palestinian children to ethnically cleanse Palestinians that won’t give up their right to return.
- yyyk 1y ago
  >The Jews in Palestine were living happily alongside the Muslims. Sure. Just one example: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Safed_massacre https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Safed_massacre Must be an accident the most Right-wing Israeli voting block is composed exactly of the Jews who were living with Muslims. >Einstein... refused to be associated with the Zionist project. Well, not exactly: https://www.britannica.com/story/the-time-albert-einstein-was-asked-to-be-president-of-israel https://www.britannica.com/story/the-time-albert-einstein-wa... >Just admit it To get close to a shared narrative, there's a need to connection to reality first... It can't be built on lies.
  - DSingularity 1y ago
    You stop lying. He did not support the establishment of a Jewish state to rule by violence and terrorism over a majority that is non-Jewish. Read his own words: https://www.shapell.org/manuscript/einstein-zionist-views-in-1946/#transcripts https://www.shapell.org/manuscript/einstein-zionist-views-in...
    - whodidntante 1y ago
      You seem to have a mindset that prevents you from perceiving reality. Israel is a country where all of its people live peacefully with each other according to the same rules, including the 20% of its population is Arab. The problem Israel has is not between its citizens, which is the most diverse group of people in the entire middle east. Arabs and Jews can live peacefully together, they currently do so in Israel, and while Jews are the majority, they do not rule the Arab minority with violence or terrorism or by imposing on them a different set of rules or laws. The Arabs in Gaza, which is not Israel, on the other hand, live in abysmal conditions, one that I would not wish upon anyone. Unfortunately, they have been indoctrinated from birth to hate Jews by their leaders, and leaders of other countries. They hate Jews more than they love themselves. They have clearly stated on many occasions that their intention is to destroy Israel and kill its Jews. For half of the past 80 years, Arabs in Gaza have had their freedom - from 1947 to 1967 and from 2005 to 2025. Both times they chose to use that time not to better themselves, but to arm themselves to fight Israel. This is not about being Jewish or Arab, it is about the sane and the insane.