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http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/12/08/21/apple_samsung_present_closing_arguments_in_california_patent_trial.html http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/12/08

http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/12/08/21/apple_samsung_present_closing_arguments_in_california_patent_trial.html http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/12/08/21/apple_samsung_...

jaekwon 14y ago
I want to live in a world where this is OK and expected. I expect competitors to build upon my work and I would love to see them win. Apple had already won my respect and loyalty with the iPhone and iOS. They lost my respect when they went against Samsung.
- mrharrison 14y ago
  Open source is awesome, I submit pull requests often. Apple did not open source. Thats the problem, we live in a world with open source tools and tools for stealing music, movies etc.. and our moral compasses have adjusted to just taking. Sharing is great, but a company doesn't make something and say here take all of my ideas and make money off of it. Unless you are google, then they say "here take," but look at my ads while you are taking.
  - jaekwon 14y ago
    We'll see. I'm going to try the "here take" approach and see what happens. Methinks it'll work out great.
- nirvana 14y ago
  Do you think that it is ok to copy GPL code and violate the terms of the GPL license? If not, then why do you think that it is ok to enforce the GPL, but not to enforce other terms whereby people reveal their work for it to be extended? This is what the patent system creates-- an opportunity for samsung to build on top of what apple has done. Apple published its work and how it was done for everyone to see... and it did so in exchange for a right to license that work to those who wanted to extend it (who could then license their extentions back to Apple.) Apple even offered a license to samsung who did nothing to extend the work and just copied what Apple had done. Apple only sued when Samsung refused to license the work. The patent system gets people to publish their inventions openly, so that they aren't kept secret. I think a lot of people forget that and imagine that if they got rid of patents people would still be publishing the inner workings of their inventions. Suing Samsung was the right thing to do, if you want a world where people expand on other people's work and where companies publish their inner workings for others to extend. Or would you say that you can violate the terms of any open source license? After all, that's what samsung did-- violate the terms.
  - jaekwon 14y ago
    >> Apple published its work and how it was done for everyone to see... and it did so in exchange for a right to license that work to those who wanted to extend it No, Apple had to publish its work to gain market share. The looks of an iPhone minus branding logo become public domain by necessity. There is no way that Apple could have kept its iOS API secret, or the dimensions of its iPhone secret, while achieving success. Therefore, these materials cannot be the basis of a patent.
- v0cab 14y ago
  Samsung own the South Korean government. Samsung had the government delay the introduction of the iPhone to South Korea to give them time to clone it (the phone that Apple was paying them to manufacture!), so that they'd at least find it easier to break their domestic market with their clone. Apple lost your respect for going against this? If you were Apple, you would love to see Samsung win?
  - jaekwon 14y ago
    Yes. Any entity can try to delay the deployment of a product that I try to sell to them. This entity can also try to reverse engineer my product. If Samsung and South Korea had such a tie, that's a problem for them and their citizens. To Apple, they are an encapsulated entity, and Apple chose to deal with them. Apple can try to get the US, or states within the US to blockade the import of Samsung devices in retribution, but again this is our problem. It harms the US consumers and innovators by restricting the sales of an "immitation". Apple is hurting my future as a potential mobile device innovator. Apple is hurting itself in exchange for short term profits, as it continues to extract profits via the wrong means.
    - v0cab 14y ago
      Your future business may also be damaged if your potential American customers do not have money to buy your apps, because their jobs working at Apple in the US disappeared. And what if you also found yourself unable to sell your apps in Asia due to the actions of protectionist governments there?
bane 14y ago
So wait...are you saying that Apple copied Samsung's "single prominent button beneath a large screen" phone design? The iPhone looks an awful lot like a refinement of the i700, i730 and i830 designs.

http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/12/08/21/apple_samsung_present_closing_arguments_in_california_patent_trial.html http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/12/08/21/apple_samsung_...

jaekwon 14y ago

I want to live in a world where this is OK and expected. I expect competitors to build upon my work and I would love to see them win. Apple had already won my respect and loyalty with the iPhone and iOS. They lost my respect when they went against Samsung.

mrharrison 14y ago
Open source is awesome, I submit pull requests often. Apple did not open source. Thats the problem, we live in a world with open source tools and tools for stealing music, movies etc.. and our moral compasses have adjusted to just taking. Sharing is great, but a company doesn't make something and say here take all of my ideas and make money off of it. Unless you are google, then they say "here take," but look at my ads while you are taking.
- jaekwon 14y ago
  We'll see. I'm going to try the "here take" approach and see what happens. Methinks it'll work out great.
nirvana 14y ago
Do you think that it is ok to copy GPL code and violate the terms of the GPL license? If not, then why do you think that it is ok to enforce the GPL, but not to enforce other terms whereby people reveal their work for it to be extended? This is what the patent system creates-- an opportunity for samsung to build on top of what apple has done. Apple published its work and how it was done for everyone to see... and it did so in exchange for a right to license that work to those who wanted to extend it (who could then license their extentions back to Apple.) Apple even offered a license to samsung who did nothing to extend the work and just copied what Apple had done. Apple only sued when Samsung refused to license the work. The patent system gets people to publish their inventions openly, so that they aren't kept secret. I think a lot of people forget that and imagine that if they got rid of patents people would still be publishing the inner workings of their inventions. Suing Samsung was the right thing to do, if you want a world where people expand on other people's work and where companies publish their inner workings for others to extend. Or would you say that you can violate the terms of any open source license? After all, that's what samsung did-- violate the terms.
- jaekwon 14y ago
  >> Apple published its work and how it was done for everyone to see... and it did so in exchange for a right to license that work to those who wanted to extend it No, Apple had to publish its work to gain market share. The looks of an iPhone minus branding logo become public domain by necessity. There is no way that Apple could have kept its iOS API secret, or the dimensions of its iPhone secret, while achieving success. Therefore, these materials cannot be the basis of a patent.
v0cab 14y ago
Samsung own the South Korean government. Samsung had the government delay the introduction of the iPhone to South Korea to give them time to clone it (the phone that Apple was paying them to manufacture!), so that they'd at least find it easier to break their domestic market with their clone. Apple lost your respect for going against this? If you were Apple, you would love to see Samsung win?
- jaekwon 14y ago
  Yes. Any entity can try to delay the deployment of a product that I try to sell to them. This entity can also try to reverse engineer my product. If Samsung and South Korea had such a tie, that's a problem for them and their citizens. To Apple, they are an encapsulated entity, and Apple chose to deal with them. Apple can try to get the US, or states within the US to blockade the import of Samsung devices in retribution, but again this is our problem. It harms the US consumers and innovators by restricting the sales of an "immitation". Apple is hurting my future as a potential mobile device innovator. Apple is hurting itself in exchange for short term profits, as it continues to extract profits via the wrong means.
  - v0cab 14y ago
    Your future business may also be damaged if your potential American customers do not have money to buy your apps, because their jobs working at Apple in the US disappeared. And what if you also found yourself unable to sell your apps in Asia due to the actions of protectionist governments there?

bane 14y ago

So wait...are you saying that Apple copied Samsung's "single prominent button beneath a large screen" phone design? The iPhone looks an awful lot like a refinement of the i700, i730 and i830 designs.