4 ms·

"Yet all of their attempts to break into the US market have resulted in absolute failure (for a variety of reasons that I won't get into here)" 'Absolute failu

by Steko 14y ago

"Yet all of their attempts to break into the US market have resulted in absolute failure (for a variety of reasons that I won't get into here)" 'Absolute failure' only if your standards are impossibly high. Even without Psy, Kpop was making legitimate inroads in the age of YT. TV appearances, concerts, blips on itunes charts and of course they are all over YT. http://www.google.com/insights/search/#q=2NE1%2CSnoop%20Dogg%2CSNSD&geo=US-HI&date=today%2012-m&cmpt=q http://www.google.com/insights/search/#q=2NE1%2CSnoop%20Dogg...

batista 14y ago
>'Absolute failure' only if your standards are impossibly high. "impossibly high"? He's talking about it with the standard "breaking into the US market" term in use since the sixties. What are you describing ("TV appearances, concerts, blips on itunes charts and of course they are all over YT") is not "breaking into the US market", the same things can happen for any obscure artist here and there. We're talking mainstream chart success. It doesn't have to be on the Led Zeppelin or Clash level, but those guys haven't even reached Air or Daft Punk levels of US success.
- Steko 14y ago
  The way obscure artists break into the us market is by signing with a US label. This is flatly not an option for Kpop artists signed with a Korean label. The British invasion in the 60's happened because DJ's actually played music requested by listeners, something that just doesn't happen on radio today. The music ecosystem in America is still heavily tied to the US labels. It's moving away from radio and physical media but those are still 2 of the 4 biggest sources and huge uphill battles for a Korean artist signed to a Korean label. They have no special advantage on itunes, it's probably a bit of an uphill fight but not as bad as CDs in Wal-Mart where the outcome has already been determined. YT is where they shine of course but there's little money in it now.
  - w1ntermute 14y ago
    > The way obscure artists break into the us market is by signing with a US label. > This is flatly not an option for Kpop artists signed with a Korean label. This is completely wrong. Korean artists who've made a play for the US market have signed with US labels. For example, the Wonder Girls are managed by JYP Entertainment in South Korea, DefStar Records in Japan, and by Jonas Records in the US.
    - Steko 14y ago
      Wikipedia indicates Jonas Records may be defunct, it certainly wasn't ever Warner Brothers. SNSD is with Interscope, 2NE1 is signed with Will I Am's label. If you have to sign with a 2nd tier label because you are basically an indentured servant to the Korean label that's been training you for 6 years your odds of being a huge breakthrough success in the US are going to plummet.
      - w1ntermute 14y ago
        My point is that there isn't some kind of contractual obligation that prevents K-pop artists from signing with foreign labels for activities in those countries. If you look at Japan, you can see dozens of K-pop artists who've signed with local labels who have no connections with the Korean labels that those artists are signed with. If K-pop artists have failed to sign with any major US labels, that's because those labels analyzed the artists and determined that they would not be successful enough to warrant signing them. Interscope is a major label, is it not? So why hasn't SNSD succeeded? See these posts for some clues: http://metropolitician.blogs.com/scribblings_of_the_metrop/2012/02/on-the-embarrassing-debut-of-girls-generation-on-letterman-and-culture-codes.html http://metropolitician.blogs.com/scribblings_of_the_metrop/2... http://metropolitician.blogs.com/scribblings_of_the_metrop/2012/02/on-virtuosity-and-talent.html http://metropolitician.blogs.com/scribblings_of_the_metrop/2... And see this post on why Psy succeeded: http://metropolitician.blogs.com/scribblings_of_the_metrop/2012/08/why-psys-gangnam-stle-style-went-american-style-and-is-the-apt-pupil-of-k-pop.html http://metropolitician.blogs.com/scribblings_of_the_metrop/2...
        Steko 14y ago
w1ntermute 14y ago
I don't know about you, but Snoop Dogg hasn't exactly been at the forefront of American music in a long time. His 2011 album Doggumentary (uggh...) peaked at #8 on the Billboard 200. And I don't doubt that K-pop has found a faithful following online. However, the internet has enabled the long tail, by allowing people who would otherwise be geographically disparate to create an online community. Even if 1 million Americans listen to K-pop (more than enough for a huge online following), that's less than 1/3 of 1% of the population - far from successful. As for concerts, that's an area that has been an indisputable failure. Although there have been some in areas with large Asian-American populations (LA, SF, NYC), it's not like they've made inroads among the non-Asian population. In fact, the "SBS K-Pop Festival in LA" was postponed, allegedly due to poor ticket sales. Considering that people were flying in from all over the country for it, that's a pretty shitty move, even by Korean entertainment agency standards. On the whole, I would say that the internet is a poor gauge of the general popularity of anything. Let me know when K-pop acts start regularly appearing on TV (no, the Letterman appearance by SNSD a few months ago, which they completely bombed, does not count) and radio - that's when you can legitimately claim that K-pop is popular in America.
uniclaude 14y ago
Your google insights link points to graphs regarding Hawaii. How exactly is this region relevant to this conversation (or to your point)? If you apply the searches to the US[1], the results are less surprising. Please describe by which metric do you mean impossibly high. Billboard rankings? [1]:http://www.google.com/insights/search/#q=2NE1%2CSnoop%20Dogg%2CSNSD&geo=US&date=today%2012-m&cmpt=q http://www.google.com/insights/search/#q=2NE1%2CSnoop%20Dogg...
- w1ntermute 14y ago
  I didn't notice that it was restricted to Hawaii. That definitely invalidates the results, since Hawaii has more Asians than whites, and Asian-Americans are quite keen on K-pop in a way that Americans at large are not.
- Steko 14y ago
  "Please describe by which metric do you mean impossibly high. Billboard rankings?" What were the Billboard expectations for Kpop in 2011? If your expectations were "about the same as in 2010" then they were drastically exceeded. Were the expectations that they would "dominate the charts"? Then I will say your expectations were impossibly high. "Your google insights link points to graphs regarding Hawaii. How exactly is this region relevant to this conversation (or to your point)? " You can repeat the thing in New York, New Jersey, California, many major metro areas, etc. The point is not that they are more popular then Snoop Dogg or that Snoop Dogg if the biggest artist in the US. The point was that if you go back more then say 18 months you don't really get much of anything for any Kpop artists ever. By those standards being as popular as someone who is a household name in the US should be viewed as a huge success, not absolute failure.
  - w1ntermute 14y ago
    > You can repeat the thing in New York, New Jersey, California, many major metro areas, etc. And you will find that in areas without disproportionately large Asian-American populations, they are basically unheard of. > The point is not that they are more popular then Snoop Dogg or that Snoop Dogg if the biggest artist in the US. Then why did you even mention Snoop Dogg? How is his popularity relevant at all?

by Steko 14y ago

batista 14y ago

>'Absolute failure' only if your standards are impossibly high. "impossibly high"? He's talking about it with the standard "breaking into the US market" term in use since the sixties. What are you describing ("TV appearances, concerts, blips on itunes charts and of course they are all over YT") is not "breaking into the US market", the same things can happen for any obscure artist here and there. We're talking mainstream chart success. It doesn't have to be on the Led Zeppelin or Clash level, but those guys haven't even reached Air or Daft Punk levels of US success.

Steko 14y ago
The way obscure artists break into the us market is by signing with a US label. This is flatly not an option for Kpop artists signed with a Korean label. The British invasion in the 60's happened because DJ's actually played music requested by listeners, something that just doesn't happen on radio today. The music ecosystem in America is still heavily tied to the US labels. It's moving away from radio and physical media but those are still 2 of the 4 biggest sources and huge uphill battles for a Korean artist signed to a Korean label. They have no special advantage on itunes, it's probably a bit of an uphill fight but not as bad as CDs in Wal-Mart where the outcome has already been determined. YT is where they shine of course but there's little money in it now.
- w1ntermute 14y ago
  > The way obscure artists break into the us market is by signing with a US label. > This is flatly not an option for Kpop artists signed with a Korean label. This is completely wrong. Korean artists who've made a play for the US market have signed with US labels. For example, the Wonder Girls are managed by JYP Entertainment in South Korea, DefStar Records in Japan, and by Jonas Records in the US.
  - Steko 14y ago
    Wikipedia indicates Jonas Records may be defunct, it certainly wasn't ever Warner Brothers. SNSD is with Interscope, 2NE1 is signed with Will I Am's label. If you have to sign with a 2nd tier label because you are basically an indentured servant to the Korean label that's been training you for 6 years your odds of being a huge breakthrough success in the US are going to plummet.
    - w1ntermute 14y ago
      My point is that there isn't some kind of contractual obligation that prevents K-pop artists from signing with foreign labels for activities in those countries. If you look at Japan, you can see dozens of K-pop artists who've signed with local labels who have no connections with the Korean labels that those artists are signed with. If K-pop artists have failed to sign with any major US labels, that's because those labels analyzed the artists and determined that they would not be successful enough to warrant signing them. Interscope is a major label, is it not? So why hasn't SNSD succeeded? See these posts for some clues: http://metropolitician.blogs.com/scribblings_of_the_metrop/2012/02/on-the-embarrassing-debut-of-girls-generation-on-letterman-and-culture-codes.html http://metropolitician.blogs.com/scribblings_of_the_metrop/2... http://metropolitician.blogs.com/scribblings_of_the_metrop/2012/02/on-virtuosity-and-talent.html http://metropolitician.blogs.com/scribblings_of_the_metrop/2... And see this post on why Psy succeeded: http://metropolitician.blogs.com/scribblings_of_the_metrop/2012/08/why-psys-gangnam-stle-style-went-american-style-and-is-the-apt-pupil-of-k-pop.html http://metropolitician.blogs.com/scribblings_of_the_metrop/2...
      - Steko 14y ago

w1ntermute 14y ago

I don't know about you, but Snoop Dogg hasn't exactly been at the forefront of American music in a long time. His 2011 album Doggumentary (uggh...) peaked at #8 on the Billboard 200. And I don't doubt that K-pop has found a faithful following online. However, the internet has enabled the long tail, by allowing people who would otherwise be geographically disparate to create an online community. Even if 1 million Americans listen to K-pop (more than enough for a huge online following), that's less than 1/3 of 1% of the population - far from successful. As for concerts, that's an area that has been an indisputable failure. Although there have been some in areas with large Asian-American populations (LA, SF, NYC), it's not like they've made inroads among the non-Asian population. In fact, the "SBS K-Pop Festival in LA" was postponed, allegedly due to poor ticket sales. Considering that people were flying in from all over the country for it, that's a pretty shitty move, even by Korean entertainment agency standards. On the whole, I would say that the internet is a poor gauge of the general popularity of anything. Let me know when K-pop acts start regularly appearing on TV (no, the Letterman appearance by SNSD a few months ago, which they completely bombed, does not count) and radio - that's when you can legitimately claim that K-pop is popular in America.

uniclaude 14y ago

Your google insights link points to graphs regarding Hawaii. How exactly is this region relevant to this conversation (or to your point)? If you apply the searches to the US[1], the results are less surprising. Please describe by which metric do you mean impossibly high. Billboard rankings? [1]:http://www.google.com/insights/search/#q=2NE1%2CSnoop%20Dogg%2CSNSD&geo=US&date=today%2012-m&cmpt=q http://www.google.com/insights/search/#q=2NE1%2CSnoop%20Dogg...

w1ntermute 14y ago
I didn't notice that it was restricted to Hawaii. That definitely invalidates the results, since Hawaii has more Asians than whites, and Asian-Americans are quite keen on K-pop in a way that Americans at large are not.
Steko 14y ago
"Please describe by which metric do you mean impossibly high. Billboard rankings?" What were the Billboard expectations for Kpop in 2011? If your expectations were "about the same as in 2010" then they were drastically exceeded. Were the expectations that they would "dominate the charts"? Then I will say your expectations were impossibly high. "Your google insights link points to graphs regarding Hawaii. How exactly is this region relevant to this conversation (or to your point)? " You can repeat the thing in New York, New Jersey, California, many major metro areas, etc. The point is not that they are more popular then Snoop Dogg or that Snoop Dogg if the biggest artist in the US. The point was that if you go back more then say 18 months you don't really get much of anything for any Kpop artists ever. By those standards being as popular as someone who is a household name in the US should be viewed as a huge success, not absolute failure.
- w1ntermute 14y ago
  > You can repeat the thing in New York, New Jersey, California, many major metro areas, etc. And you will find that in areas without disproportionately large Asian-American populations, they are basically unheard of. > The point is not that they are more popular then Snoop Dogg or that Snoop Dogg if the biggest artist in the US. Then why did you even mention Snoop Dogg? How is his popularity relevant at all?