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Israel-Palestine war stats is really off, because the Palestinian officials also include natural deaths in those stats (8,000 per year in Gaza). So the total is

Israel-Palestine war stats is really off, because the Palestinian officials also include natural deaths in those stats (8,000 per year in Gaza). So the total is more like 40,000-50,000, and most are combatants.

tehjoker 1y ago
Genocidal comment. It is well known the stats are an undercount due to the genocidal starvation, disease, and deprivation, collapsing buildings on people that are never counted, and the many videos of e.g. Israelis burning children alive in tents. "True death toll from conflict in Gaza is 41% higher than reported, study estimates" https://www.bmj.com/content/388/bmj.r73 https://www.bmj.com/content/388/bmj.r73
- edanm 1y ago
  What makes the comment "genocidal" exactly?
  - tehjoker 1y ago
    "most are combatants" serves to justify the ongoing genocide when the opposite is true in reality. The reality is most combatants are underground so Israel bombs civilians. This is in line with its war goals of ethnically cleansing Gaza so there is no contestation of its colonial claims. Currently, Israel and the United States are luring starving Gazans with a pittance of aid into kill boxes using the intelligence front "Gaza Humanitarian Foundation". It's sick and depraved.
    - myth_drannon 1y ago
      Nazi ideology is popular in Gaza and they learned many lessons from its chief propagandist Goebbels. From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombing_of_Dresden https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombing_of_Dresden "a new leaflet with photographs of two burned children was released under the title "Dresden—Massacre of Refugees", stating that 200,000 had died." "doctored with an extra zero to increase [the total dead from the raid] to 202,040"." Israel-Palestine war will be notorious not for the mass casualties but for the massive, well preparared propaganda war. This will be studied for generations. Israel truly failed to counter this threat (among others) and is totally unprepared.
      - worik 1y ago
        > Israel-Palestine war will be notorious not for the mass casualties It will be notorious for exactly that And the complicity of the West. The lack of boycott and scantions on the Israeli state is a damning indictment of the immense hypocrisy of us in the West Shame on us, shame on them
      - tehjoker 1y ago
        More genocidal rhetoric. The nazis are infamous because in part, they were doing settler colonialism in Europe. They were getting free land from lesser beings and promising homesteads to their officers. Israel is doing settler colonialism to people that had nothing to do with WW2 and the holocaust. If you have a problem with the Germans, take it up with Germany. My understanding is that in Gaza, it is a common understanding that they are being subjected to a Nazi extermination campaign by people (Christian and Jewish Zionists) claiming the Holocaust made them do it (meanwhile, the Zionists stole reparations money from Holocaust survivors and considered the survivors weak). I'm Jewish and I cannot tolerate this shit. It is an evil stain on our people that will mark us for millennia. Anyone who does not speak out at this moment is complicit in genocide.
        myth_drannon 1y ago
        [flagged]
        tehjoker 1y ago
        Jews and other indigenous Palestinians lived in mostly peace until the zionists came. You are a zionist genocide supporter, and islamophobic at that.
        edanm 1y ago
        > Israel is doing settler colonialism to people that had nothing to do with WW2 and the holocaust. If you have a problem with the Germans, take it up with Germany. > [...] it is a common understanding that they are being subjected to a Nazi extermination campaign by people (Christian and Jewish Zionists) claiming the Holocaust made them do it That is not what Israel is doing. Israel is attacking a semi-state that invaded and slaughtered its people. That is the original and majority motivation for the current actions in Gaza. Some Israelis, who are not representative of the majority but do have outsized political power, also want to resettle Gaza and take the land. I hope they are soon removed from office and from holding any power. > (meanwhile, the Zionists stole reparations money from Holocaust survivors and considered the survivors weak). Many of the original citizens of Israel were the Holocaust survivors, and the majority were the Jews ethnically cleansed from Arab lands. So I'm not sure where you're getting this "The Zionists stole reparations" idea.
    - edanm 1y ago
      > "most are combatants" serves to justify the ongoing genocide when the opposite is true in reality. I disagree with that part of the comment (and said so), but disagreed on a factual statement does not make a comment genocidal. > The reality is most combatants are underground so Israel bombs civilians. This is in line with its war goals of ethnically cleansing Gaza so there is no contestation of its colonial claims. This is simply false. Despite the common view of the world, outside of isolated incidents, there is almost no evidence that Israel intentionally targets civilians for bombing. It accepts civilian casualties, but only given a valid military target. You can say a lot of bad things about what Israel is doing, and I do so. I'm against the current war and have very negative views of a lot of Israeli actions. But you're thinking things that you have no evidence for (and lots of evidence against). > Currently, Israel and the United States are luring starving Gazans with a pittance of aid into kill boxes using the intelligence front "Gaza Humanitarian Foundation". It's sick and depraved. This is both wrong, and doesn't make much sense. Why would Israel need to "lure" Gazans into kill boxes to kill them? Many/most are clustered together in refugee tents. If Israel were truly fine with bombing civilians, it could easily bomb these centers. Why would it need to "lure" anyone anywhere? Here's an alternative possibility - Hamas, which the Gazan people themselves hate and are protesting daily, has been using aid to keep control of the population, by stealing it and selling it to civilians. The GHF is threatening this model, so Hamas is doing everything it can to get rid of it - including threatening its personnel (this is on record as having happened), and including causing problems, up to and including shooting Palestinians to make the operation of the GHF look bad. What makes you so sure this isn't what's happening? (Personally, I think the truth is somewhere in the middle and I don't know where exactly it is. This clearly threatens Hamas and they clearly have lots of incentives to make it fail, and have clearly tried to do so... but it's also possible that the criticisms of the GHF are correct, that it's poorly conceived and poorly run, and works in a dehumanizing way that has no chance to serve the population aid in an effective manner.)
edanm 1y ago
It's inaccurate to say "most" are combatants. The estimate is usually 2/3rds are civilians and 1/3rd are combatants. Of course it's hard to get real answers on all these questions - Gaza's Hamas-run MoH is not exactly trustworthy, and don't publish a split of civilians vs combatants. And Israel, even assuming you do trust its numbers, doesn't publish estimates of Gazan civilians killed either.

tehjoker 1y ago

Genocidal comment. It is well known the stats are an undercount due to the genocidal starvation, disease, and deprivation, collapsing buildings on people that are never counted, and the many videos of e.g. Israelis burning children alive in tents. "True death toll from conflict in Gaza is 41% higher than reported, study estimates" https://www.bmj.com/content/388/bmj.r73 https://www.bmj.com/content/388/bmj.r73

edanm 1y ago
What makes the comment "genocidal" exactly?
- tehjoker 1y ago
  "most are combatants" serves to justify the ongoing genocide when the opposite is true in reality. The reality is most combatants are underground so Israel bombs civilians. This is in line with its war goals of ethnically cleansing Gaza so there is no contestation of its colonial claims. Currently, Israel and the United States are luring starving Gazans with a pittance of aid into kill boxes using the intelligence front "Gaza Humanitarian Foundation". It's sick and depraved.
  - myth_drannon 1y ago
    Nazi ideology is popular in Gaza and they learned many lessons from its chief propagandist Goebbels. From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombing_of_Dresden https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombing_of_Dresden "a new leaflet with photographs of two burned children was released under the title "Dresden—Massacre of Refugees", stating that 200,000 had died." "doctored with an extra zero to increase [the total dead from the raid] to 202,040"." Israel-Palestine war will be notorious not for the mass casualties but for the massive, well preparared propaganda war. This will be studied for generations. Israel truly failed to counter this threat (among others) and is totally unprepared.
    - worik 1y ago
      > Israel-Palestine war will be notorious not for the mass casualties It will be notorious for exactly that And the complicity of the West. The lack of boycott and scantions on the Israeli state is a damning indictment of the immense hypocrisy of us in the West Shame on us, shame on them
    - tehjoker 1y ago
      More genocidal rhetoric. The nazis are infamous because in part, they were doing settler colonialism in Europe. They were getting free land from lesser beings and promising homesteads to their officers. Israel is doing settler colonialism to people that had nothing to do with WW2 and the holocaust. If you have a problem with the Germans, take it up with Germany. My understanding is that in Gaza, it is a common understanding that they are being subjected to a Nazi extermination campaign by people (Christian and Jewish Zionists) claiming the Holocaust made them do it (meanwhile, the Zionists stole reparations money from Holocaust survivors and considered the survivors weak). I'm Jewish and I cannot tolerate this shit. It is an evil stain on our people that will mark us for millennia. Anyone who does not speak out at this moment is complicit in genocide.
      - myth_drannon 1y ago
        [flagged]
        tehjoker 1y ago
        Jews and other indigenous Palestinians lived in mostly peace until the zionists came. You are a zionist genocide supporter, and islamophobic at that.
      - edanm 1y ago
        > Israel is doing settler colonialism to people that had nothing to do with WW2 and the holocaust. If you have a problem with the Germans, take it up with Germany. > [...] it is a common understanding that they are being subjected to a Nazi extermination campaign by people (Christian and Jewish Zionists) claiming the Holocaust made them do it That is not what Israel is doing. Israel is attacking a semi-state that invaded and slaughtered its people. That is the original and majority motivation for the current actions in Gaza. Some Israelis, who are not representative of the majority but do have outsized political power, also want to resettle Gaza and take the land. I hope they are soon removed from office and from holding any power. > (meanwhile, the Zionists stole reparations money from Holocaust survivors and considered the survivors weak). Many of the original citizens of Israel were the Holocaust survivors, and the majority were the Jews ethnically cleansed from Arab lands. So I'm not sure where you're getting this "The Zionists stole reparations" idea.
  - edanm 1y ago
    > "most are combatants" serves to justify the ongoing genocide when the opposite is true in reality. I disagree with that part of the comment (and said so), but disagreed on a factual statement does not make a comment genocidal. > The reality is most combatants are underground so Israel bombs civilians. This is in line with its war goals of ethnically cleansing Gaza so there is no contestation of its colonial claims. This is simply false. Despite the common view of the world, outside of isolated incidents, there is almost no evidence that Israel intentionally targets civilians for bombing. It accepts civilian casualties, but only given a valid military target. You can say a lot of bad things about what Israel is doing, and I do so. I'm against the current war and have very negative views of a lot of Israeli actions. But you're thinking things that you have no evidence for (and lots of evidence against). > Currently, Israel and the United States are luring starving Gazans with a pittance of aid into kill boxes using the intelligence front "Gaza Humanitarian Foundation". It's sick and depraved. This is both wrong, and doesn't make much sense. Why would Israel need to "lure" Gazans into kill boxes to kill them? Many/most are clustered together in refugee tents. If Israel were truly fine with bombing civilians, it could easily bomb these centers. Why would it need to "lure" anyone anywhere? Here's an alternative possibility - Hamas, which the Gazan people themselves hate and are protesting daily, has been using aid to keep control of the population, by stealing it and selling it to civilians. The GHF is threatening this model, so Hamas is doing everything it can to get rid of it - including threatening its personnel (this is on record as having happened), and including causing problems, up to and including shooting Palestinians to make the operation of the GHF look bad. What makes you so sure this isn't what's happening? (Personally, I think the truth is somewhere in the middle and I don't know where exactly it is. This clearly threatens Hamas and they clearly have lots of incentives to make it fail, and have clearly tried to do so... but it's also possible that the criticisms of the GHF are correct, that it's poorly conceived and poorly run, and works in a dehumanizing way that has no chance to serve the population aid in an effective manner.)

edanm 1y ago

It's inaccurate to say "most" are combatants. The estimate is usually 2/3rds are civilians and 1/3rd are combatants. Of course it's hard to get real answers on all these questions - Gaza's Hamas-run MoH is not exactly trustworthy, and don't publish a split of civilians vs combatants. And Israel, even assuming you do trust its numbers, doesn't publish estimates of Gazan civilians killed either.