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People who think that's a massive elephant are shortsighted. You know what illegal immigrants do? Work. For shitty wages. You know what that does? Boosts th

by ethbr1 1y ago

People who think that's a massive elephant are shortsighted. You know what illegal immigrants do? Work. For shitty wages. You know what that does? Boosts the US' labor force and economy, which buffers the declining fertility rate [0]. The fact that anti-immigration (of any sort) folks never think beyond first-effects is mind boggling. Illegal immigration causes some problems; it also solves others. [0] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_and_territories_by_fertility_rate https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_and_terr...

gedy 1y ago
Well they do take up a lot of housing if you live in areas with many illegal aliens, which folks here always complain about.
newhope1978 1y ago
so your reason that why we need them is because they are wage slaves that will eventually replace us? Why not just use the billions of dollars spent on immigration to boost wages, make life more affordable, and give tax cuts to ACTUAL AMERICANS as an incentive to have more kids?
- dakr 1y ago
  Tax cuts aren't what people are waiting for to grow their families. It's parental leave, childcare, affordable healthcare, and the feeling that the system their kids will grow up in isn't getting actively gutted in favor of the rich and religious zealots.
- ethbr1 1y ago
  Economies run on labor. Raging isn't going to change that hard truth. I'm also not sure we see the math the same way. Illegal immigrant = working, not consuming social services (outside of guaranteed entitlements like EMTALA), paying payroll and sales taxes Tax cuts = ?? You think COVID stimulus would have made people understand that flooding more money into a system with limited supply capacity will just lead to price inflation. The way to address quality of life for parents and promote having children is to decrease the economic cost of doing so. PS: Bolding actual americans made me laugh. Actual Americans are anyone who works hard in this country.
xedrac 1y ago
I have no problem with legal immigration - people who have worked hard to become citizens via legal channels, and who love our country. They wouldn't dream of rioting or committing violence, all while waving another country's flag. I have a huge problem with what happened over the last 4 years.
- davidw 1y ago
  So you're out there protesting that they're deporting Afghans who are here legally, who served alongside our military and would likely be killed if they were sent home, right? https://timesofsandiego.com/military/2025/06/12/afghani-who-aided-u-s-army-detained-by-ice-in-san-diego-immigration-court/ https://timesofsandiego.com/military/2025/06/12/afghani-who-...
  - xedrac 1y ago
    If he was a citizen, then I would definitely have a problem with it. The problem I see is that asylum claims have been so abused recently that they have become an entitlement rather than an exceptional case. I don't know the specifics of this guy, but a judge ruled in his case to not keep him here. Maybe there's a good reason for that, or maybe the judge is sick of what has transpired over the last 4 years and is over compensating for it. I don't know, but I know things can't continue the way the were going during Biden's term.
    - davidw 1y ago
      So first you're for legal immigration, and then well, no, not like that. "Do things the proper way" is just a facade for the xenophobia. The guy worked with the US in Afghanistan. Do you not think he has a real case here? He'll get killed if they send him back.
      - xedrac 1y ago
        On the surface, yes, it looks like he has a strong case for asylum. But the judge denied it for some reason, which I assume is based on something more than personal feelings. I am not familiar enough with him or his case to judge for myself, and I am certainly not going to blindly accept what the news says, as they have proven to be almost completely void of unbiased information.
raxxorraxor 1y ago
You parent is wrong but so are you and you make the same mistakes. The effects you describe have higher order effects as well that can indeed have negative effects. Not saying republicans would give a crap about them, but they are undeniable. For wages developments and housing prices, topics that fundamentally influence basic needs very much in contrast to GDP growths, even if there are positive side effects as well. I think compared to the EU these immigrants can only be a net positive because people are forced to ultimately care for themselves.
- ethbr1 1y ago
  The wage arguments are somewhat wishy washy, given the extreme concentration of illegal labor in low-skill, low-wage work. Agriculture, meat processing, construction. Putting aside the moral qualms about underpaying someone for hard, physical work, it's hard to argue that the American economy (and the average American) loses more than it gains from cheaper labor. Housing would be a clusterfuck without illegal immigration, so I'm also hesitant to draw that connection too boldly. Would stopping all illegal immigration ease prices? A bit. Would it fix an undersupplied housing market and overconsolidated rental market that's driving price inceases? No.
- omikun 1y ago
  You think illegal immigrants working for sub minimum wages is pushing housing prices up? Care to explain that line of logic? Cheap labor lowers cost of housing development too.

by ethbr1 1y ago

gedy 1y ago

Well they do take up a lot of housing if you live in areas with many illegal aliens, which folks here always complain about.

newhope1978 1y ago

so your reason that why we need them is because they are wage slaves that will eventually replace us? Why not just use the billions of dollars spent on immigration to boost wages, make life more affordable, and give tax cuts to ACTUAL AMERICANS as an incentive to have more kids?

dakr 1y ago
Tax cuts aren't what people are waiting for to grow their families. It's parental leave, childcare, affordable healthcare, and the feeling that the system their kids will grow up in isn't getting actively gutted in favor of the rich and religious zealots.
ethbr1 1y ago
Economies run on labor. Raging isn't going to change that hard truth. I'm also not sure we see the math the same way. Illegal immigrant = working, not consuming social services (outside of guaranteed entitlements like EMTALA), paying payroll and sales taxes Tax cuts = ?? You think COVID stimulus would have made people understand that flooding more money into a system with limited supply capacity will just lead to price inflation. The way to address quality of life for parents and promote having children is to decrease the economic cost of doing so. PS: Bolding actual americans made me laugh. Actual Americans are anyone who works hard in this country.

xedrac 1y ago

I have no problem with legal immigration - people who have worked hard to become citizens via legal channels, and who love our country. They wouldn't dream of rioting or committing violence, all while waving another country's flag. I have a huge problem with what happened over the last 4 years.

davidw 1y ago
So you're out there protesting that they're deporting Afghans who are here legally, who served alongside our military and would likely be killed if they were sent home, right? https://timesofsandiego.com/military/2025/06/12/afghani-who-aided-u-s-army-detained-by-ice-in-san-diego-immigration-court/ https://timesofsandiego.com/military/2025/06/12/afghani-who-...
- xedrac 1y ago
  If he was a citizen, then I would definitely have a problem with it. The problem I see is that asylum claims have been so abused recently that they have become an entitlement rather than an exceptional case. I don't know the specifics of this guy, but a judge ruled in his case to not keep him here. Maybe there's a good reason for that, or maybe the judge is sick of what has transpired over the last 4 years and is over compensating for it. I don't know, but I know things can't continue the way the were going during Biden's term.
  - davidw 1y ago
    So first you're for legal immigration, and then well, no, not like that. "Do things the proper way" is just a facade for the xenophobia. The guy worked with the US in Afghanistan. Do you not think he has a real case here? He'll get killed if they send him back.
    - xedrac 1y ago
      On the surface, yes, it looks like he has a strong case for asylum. But the judge denied it for some reason, which I assume is based on something more than personal feelings. I am not familiar enough with him or his case to judge for myself, and I am certainly not going to blindly accept what the news says, as they have proven to be almost completely void of unbiased information.

raxxorraxor 1y ago

You parent is wrong but so are you and you make the same mistakes. The effects you describe have higher order effects as well that can indeed have negative effects. Not saying republicans would give a crap about them, but they are undeniable. For wages developments and housing prices, topics that fundamentally influence basic needs very much in contrast to GDP growths, even if there are positive side effects as well. I think compared to the EU these immigrants can only be a net positive because people are forced to ultimately care for themselves.

ethbr1 1y ago
The wage arguments are somewhat wishy washy, given the extreme concentration of illegal labor in low-skill, low-wage work. Agriculture, meat processing, construction. Putting aside the moral qualms about underpaying someone for hard, physical work, it's hard to argue that the American economy (and the average American) loses more than it gains from cheaper labor. Housing would be a clusterfuck without illegal immigration, so I'm also hesitant to draw that connection too boldly. Would stopping all illegal immigration ease prices? A bit. Would it fix an undersupplied housing market and overconsolidated rental market that's driving price inceases? No.
omikun 1y ago
You think illegal immigrants working for sub minimum wages is pushing housing prices up? Care to explain that line of logic? Cheap labor lowers cost of housing development too.