7 ms·

Apple recently made FSKit a supported/documented API, which should allow third-parties to add support for other filesystems: https://developer.apple.com/documen

Apple recently made FSKit a supported/documented API, which should allow third-parties to add support for other filesystems: https://developer.apple.com/documentation/fskit?language=objc https://developer.apple.com/documentation/fskit?language=obj...

duskwuff 1y ago
Is it actually supported and usable now? I seem to recall it spending a lot of time in a "half-documented and not actually available" state.
whywhywhywhy 1y ago
3rd party supporting a file system would be one of the last things on a list of all software I’d ever want a 3rd party writing instead of the OS maker. Nightmare to evaluate the options, pure stress testing the options, difficult to know if it didn’t mess something up.
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]
- Defletter 1y ago
  Question, who maintains NTFS support for Linux? Microsoft? The kernel? The distros? Genuinely asking.
  - LambdaComplex 1y ago
    The current ntfs3 driver is developed by a company called Paragon, and it's been part of the kernel since 5.15 or so. I was going to add some additional comments about this, but then I found that Paragon's website has an FAQ that covers everything I was going to say (and more): https://www.paragon-software.com/us/home/ntfs3-driver-faq/ https://www.paragon-software.com/us/home/ntfs3-driver-faq/
  - deleted 1y ago
    [deleted]
  - KMnO4 1y ago
    The kernel is built with the NTFS3 driver, provided by Paragon. https://www.paragon-software.com/home/ntfs3-driver-faq/ https://www.paragon-software.com/home/ntfs3-driver-faq/
  - deleted 1y ago
    [deleted]
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]
- duskwuff 1y ago
  That being said: FSKit is a userspace API. In that respect, it's a lot better than filesystem code running in the kernel - it can't crash your computer or corrupt data on other filesystems, and it's much more tightly sandboxed if it gets exploited.
  - mbreese 1y ago
    Exactly! Third party file systems support in user space is exactly what I want to see. It seems to me that third party kernel code has always caused me problems. By moving the FSKit to user-space, I’m quite happy to try something, knowing that it won’t affect the rest of my system.
- coldtea 1y ago
  >3rd party supporting a file system would be one of the last things on a list of all software I’d ever want a 3rd party writing instead of the OS maker. Given how many people use FUSE, Paragon NTFS for Mac, and similar tools, you're hardly totally representative.
  - i80and 1y ago
    Third party read-write NTFS drivers took FOREVER to become really robust. I remember hearing horror stories not infrequently up until maybe a decade or less ago.
  - whywhywhywhy 1y ago
    > Given how many people use FUSE What percentage of MacOS users even know what that is. I mean I am in the percent but I know it's sub 0.001
    - euazOn 1y ago
      Well there’s at least two of us.
    - conception 1y ago
      They don’t need to know it to use it. I’ve seen a fair number of commercial cloud drive products use it.
    - pdpi 1y ago
      MacOS users' awareness of a mostly linux centric piece of tech is pretty damn irrelevant here. The point is that FUSE is a pretty mature piece of technology, and we know that it can be used productively without being that nightmare scenario you described. There is no reason why Apple's FSKit can't be equally successful.
  - __float 1y ago
    Do many people use macFUSE? I thought ever since the license change it's really dropped off.
- socalgal2 1y ago
  I'd be happy for VeraCrypt not to have to rely on MacFuse which requires I go turn off some very low-level protection to even use. It sounds like this makes that possible. I don't really understand your objection to be honest. Drivers for storage are common on other platforms
- 8fingerlouie 1y ago
  What would Apple's incentive be to support Btrfs, Ext4, XFS or ZFS ? Btrfs, Ext4 and XFS are all under GPLv3, which may or may not be a problem for Apple, but "just in case". They tried with ZFS, but couldn't strike a deal with Sun/Oracle, so instead invented APFS. Apple already delivers a stable filesystem. It may not be "best of breed", but it works, as billions of devices runs on it every day with zero problems.
pxc 1y ago
Thanks for sharing about this! I didn't know, and I like to use (or at least play with) some third-party filesystems on macOS.

duskwuff 1y ago

Is it actually supported and usable now? I seem to recall it spending a lot of time in a "half-documented and not actually available" state.

whywhywhywhy 1y ago

3rd party supporting a file system would be one of the last things on a list of all software I’d ever want a 3rd party writing instead of the OS maker. Nightmare to evaluate the options, pure stress testing the options, difficult to know if it didn’t mess something up.

deleted 1y ago
[deleted]
Defletter 1y ago
Question, who maintains NTFS support for Linux? Microsoft? The kernel? The distros? Genuinely asking.
- LambdaComplex 1y ago
  The current ntfs3 driver is developed by a company called Paragon, and it's been part of the kernel since 5.15 or so. I was going to add some additional comments about this, but then I found that Paragon's website has an FAQ that covers everything I was going to say (and more): https://www.paragon-software.com/us/home/ntfs3-driver-faq/ https://www.paragon-software.com/us/home/ntfs3-driver-faq/
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]
- KMnO4 1y ago
  The kernel is built with the NTFS3 driver, provided by Paragon. https://www.paragon-software.com/home/ntfs3-driver-faq/ https://www.paragon-software.com/home/ntfs3-driver-faq/
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]
deleted 1y ago
[deleted]
duskwuff 1y ago
That being said: FSKit is a userspace API. In that respect, it's a lot better than filesystem code running in the kernel - it can't crash your computer or corrupt data on other filesystems, and it's much more tightly sandboxed if it gets exploited.
- mbreese 1y ago
  Exactly! Third party file systems support in user space is exactly what I want to see. It seems to me that third party kernel code has always caused me problems. By moving the FSKit to user-space, I’m quite happy to try something, knowing that it won’t affect the rest of my system.
coldtea 1y ago
>3rd party supporting a file system would be one of the last things on a list of all software I’d ever want a 3rd party writing instead of the OS maker. Given how many people use FUSE, Paragon NTFS for Mac, and similar tools, you're hardly totally representative.
- i80and 1y ago
  Third party read-write NTFS drivers took FOREVER to become really robust. I remember hearing horror stories not infrequently up until maybe a decade or less ago.
- whywhywhywhy 1y ago
  > Given how many people use FUSE What percentage of MacOS users even know what that is. I mean I am in the percent but I know it's sub 0.001
  - euazOn 1y ago
    Well there’s at least two of us.
  - conception 1y ago
    They don’t need to know it to use it. I’ve seen a fair number of commercial cloud drive products use it.
  - pdpi 1y ago
    MacOS users' awareness of a mostly linux centric piece of tech is pretty damn irrelevant here. The point is that FUSE is a pretty mature piece of technology, and we know that it can be used productively without being that nightmare scenario you described. There is no reason why Apple's FSKit can't be equally successful.
- __float 1y ago
  Do many people use macFUSE? I thought ever since the license change it's really dropped off.
socalgal2 1y ago
I'd be happy for VeraCrypt not to have to rely on MacFuse which requires I go turn off some very low-level protection to even use. It sounds like this makes that possible. I don't really understand your objection to be honest. Drivers for storage are common on other platforms
8fingerlouie 1y ago
What would Apple's incentive be to support Btrfs, Ext4, XFS or ZFS ? Btrfs, Ext4 and XFS are all under GPLv3, which may or may not be a problem for Apple, but "just in case". They tried with ZFS, but couldn't strike a deal with Sun/Oracle, so instead invented APFS. Apple already delivers a stable filesystem. It may not be "best of breed", but it works, as billions of devices runs on it every day with zero problems.

pxc 1y ago

Thanks for sharing about this! I didn't know, and I like to use (or at least play with) some third-party filesystems on macOS.