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Digital sovereignty becoming a thing. EU needs to go further - erect its own Great Firewall, protect and nurture EU native tech. 400 million people cannot be de

Digital sovereignty becoming a thing. EU needs to go further - erect its own Great Firewall, protect and nurture EU native tech. 400 million people cannot be dependent on an internet controlled by foreigners

protocolture 1y ago
I dont know about a great firewall, but it certainly needs parallel services. The problem I have is 2 fold. 1. We need more distributed services and less reliance on that silly country full of absolute dunderheads I am not allowed to be mean to on this service. 2. We ALSO need to safeguard freedom of communication BETWEEN countries, lest a series of bad events leads to a bunch of countries going permanently dark. The BGP bomb isnt frightening because you might be left without root service nodes, its frightening because there are people in other countries we get great value out of communicating with.
- immibis 1y ago
  We need a hierarchical addressing architecture, so when you (in the USA) want to talk to Amazon you say "talk to Amazon" but when I (in an oppressive regime) want to talk to Amazon I say "talk to Tor gateway, tell him to talk to Timbuktu exit node, tell him to talk to America, tell him to talk to Amazon" We have something like this with phone numbers (dial 9 for outside line) and domains but not with IP addresses. The "internet" used to have it with bang paths. Flat addressing is very good and convenient, but political turmoil easily destroys it, as Russia has already seen and the US is about to see. (Cryptographic flat addresses don't suffer political problems but have different problems with scalability) It would solve NAT, too.
  - protocolture 1y ago
    >We need a hierarchical addressing architecture As much as I love ENS I didnt propose a flat structure. I just think we can have our cake (hierarchies) and eat it to (Not have the yanks at the top/root of those heirarchies)
- hunglee2 1y ago
  I've come to believe that a great firewall is the only way parallel services might emerge, EU should've done this in mid 2000's
lillecarl 1y ago
Not that it's entirely related, but there are a lot of countries from Europe which are very high on the "Freedom house" score. https://freedomhouse.org/country/scores https://freedomhouse.org/country/scores I'd say most of my privacy is being invaded by US companies, I can trust my insurance company isn't buying health data through third parties about me and such.
- protocolture 1y ago
  Australia needs to be way lower on that net score. The Access and Assistance bill lets government ministers compel companies to create backdoors verbally with no recourse. Jailtime if they let anyone know about the backdoor. Including legal representation. The bill was meant to be amended but no one will touch it, its radioactive. It inspired the UK NZ and Canada to similar arrangements from memory. Yes corporations making a buck off your user data is bad but I am much more afraid of what government can do with it.
philprx 1y ago
You're advocating for going the way of dystopian china? Gee... Those who trade privacy for security will get neither (and deserve none?)
- hunglee2 1y ago
  China is the only country that has internet sovereignty, quite essential for national sovereignty
sunaookami 1y ago
Not sure if irony but they are certainly interested in a Great Firewall: https://diginomica.com/eu-policy-doc-recommends-building-european-internet-firewall-similar-chinas-lets-build-new-digital https://diginomica.com/eu-policy-doc-recommends-building-eur... https://www.europarl.europa.eu/RegData/etudes/STUD/2020/648784/IPOL_STU(2020)648784_EN.pdf https://www.europarl.europa.eu/RegData/etudes/STUD/2020/6487... (page 12)

protocolture 1y ago

I dont know about a great firewall, but it certainly needs parallel services. The problem I have is 2 fold. 1. We need more distributed services and less reliance on that silly country full of absolute dunderheads I am not allowed to be mean to on this service. 2. We ALSO need to safeguard freedom of communication BETWEEN countries, lest a series of bad events leads to a bunch of countries going permanently dark. The BGP bomb isnt frightening because you might be left without root service nodes, its frightening because there are people in other countries we get great value out of communicating with.

immibis 1y ago
We need a hierarchical addressing architecture, so when you (in the USA) want to talk to Amazon you say "talk to Amazon" but when I (in an oppressive regime) want to talk to Amazon I say "talk to Tor gateway, tell him to talk to Timbuktu exit node, tell him to talk to America, tell him to talk to Amazon" We have something like this with phone numbers (dial 9 for outside line) and domains but not with IP addresses. The "internet" used to have it with bang paths. Flat addressing is very good and convenient, but political turmoil easily destroys it, as Russia has already seen and the US is about to see. (Cryptographic flat addresses don't suffer political problems but have different problems with scalability) It would solve NAT, too.
- protocolture 1y ago
  >We need a hierarchical addressing architecture As much as I love ENS I didnt propose a flat structure. I just think we can have our cake (hierarchies) and eat it to (Not have the yanks at the top/root of those heirarchies)
hunglee2 1y ago
I've come to believe that a great firewall is the only way parallel services might emerge, EU should've done this in mid 2000's

lillecarl 1y ago

Not that it's entirely related, but there are a lot of countries from Europe which are very high on the "Freedom house" score. https://freedomhouse.org/country/scores https://freedomhouse.org/country/scores I'd say most of my privacy is being invaded by US companies, I can trust my insurance company isn't buying health data through third parties about me and such.

protocolture 1y ago
Australia needs to be way lower on that net score. The Access and Assistance bill lets government ministers compel companies to create backdoors verbally with no recourse. Jailtime if they let anyone know about the backdoor. Including legal representation. The bill was meant to be amended but no one will touch it, its radioactive. It inspired the UK NZ and Canada to similar arrangements from memory. Yes corporations making a buck off your user data is bad but I am much more afraid of what government can do with it.

philprx 1y ago

You're advocating for going the way of dystopian china? Gee... Those who trade privacy for security will get neither (and deserve none?)

hunglee2 1y ago
China is the only country that has internet sovereignty, quite essential for national sovereignty

sunaookami 1y ago

Not sure if irony but they are certainly interested in a Great Firewall: https://diginomica.com/eu-policy-doc-recommends-building-european-internet-firewall-similar-chinas-lets-build-new-digital https://diginomica.com/eu-policy-doc-recommends-building-eur... https://www.europarl.europa.eu/RegData/etudes/STUD/2020/648784/IPOL_STU(2020)648784_EN.pdf https://www.europarl.europa.eu/RegData/etudes/STUD/2020/6487... (page 12)