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[flagged]

potato3732842 1y ago
You don't even need to involve the feds or the balance of fed-state power. Just slice up the damn state. There's just no avoiding dysfunction at its current scale. No one state government can serve so many diverse interests. On the east coast they solve this problem by having smaller states. Wouldn't want those Massachusetts doctors or NYC financiers sticking their dick in Pennsylvania's farming economy or Maine's lumber and tourism economy and screwing it all up. Or vise versa. And those are the problems that CA suffers from. If the argument not to is federal party politics there are plenty of solutions to slice and dice in a net-neutral manner.
- pavel_lishin 1y ago
  > On the east coast they solve this problem by having smaller states. That makes it sound like the eastern seaboard was originally the size of California, and then we recently decided to break them up when it was too big to effectively govern. (I mean, I guess you could say that is what happened during the colonization of the area, and the Revolutionary War... I'll leave that debate to someone who studied more history than I did.) Although I will say that New Jersey and NYC do constantly do things that affect the other one; it's just a function of NYC being a huge city, on the border of a dense state.
  - singleshot_ 1y ago
    Did you know Maine used to be part of Massachusetts?
    - pavel_lishin 1y ago
      I did not!
  - potato3732842 1y ago
    I should have said "doesn't have this problem much at all" rather than "solves" but regardless... >Although I will say that New Jersey and NYC do constantly do things that affect the other one; it's just a function of NYC being a huge city, on the border of a dense state. And their misery is their own doing so nobody feels bad for them in the way that people feel at least a little bad for CA famers who are getting crapped on by people the white collar workers elected or feels bad for LA being hamstrung by policy that appeals to SF and Sac or whatever.
- buonu 1y ago
  Yeah pretty sure CA suffers from humans not made up gibberish as you put it Soon as you open the door to the conversation though your simple pipe dream is clogged by every land developer, US or overseas, environmental groups, etc Because people outside the government exist and will engage. It’s opening a new lane on the freeway assuming it will help forever and it’s clogged in a couple years. People flock to a void and a new set of states and legal boundaries is a knowledge void to fill with special interests. But go ahead and forget every NGO, and people themselves and just put our agency at the whims of government. Not say government bad, just that no it won’t just be government dictating. And it should not be cause that’s how you get to “government bad”.
- Terr_ 1y ago
  > Just slice up the damn state. Not that simple. Other states, the small ones, will not permit [0] it to happen, since it would dilute their own unfair influence on the federal government, [1] the relic of an ancient join-up bribe from 1788. [0] https://constitution.congress.gov/browse/essay/artIV-S3-C1-4/ALDE_00013711/ https://constitution.congress.gov/browse/essay/artIV-S3-C1-4... [1] https://medium.com/qri-io/youre-probably-underrepresented-in-the-u-s-senate-a2c1f7068b06 https://medium.com/qri-io/youre-probably-underrepresented-in...
LPisGood 1y ago
California is one of the best functioning states in the country.
- vondur 1y ago
  I'm going to need some data support that. I would consider it the worst run state in the Union...
  - LPisGood 1y ago
    Its education, wages, healthcare, opportunities, safety net, crime, etc are all top tier. Most claims to the contrary are just propaganda.
    - amanaplanacanal 1y ago
      Best in terms of outcomes, but I guess worst in terms of some people's preferred politics :)
    - deleted 1y ago
      [deleted]
    - vondur 1y ago
      California is almost at the bottom of all K-12 education metrics. It's crime rate in the cities is atrocious. It's near the top in poverty rates in the US. Most of these "safety net" benefits will quickly be cut in the upcoming years as the state is forced to deal with it's crippling budget deficits.
  - jay_kyburz 1y ago
    Haha, just wait to see what happens when they succeed from the Union. :)
tomhow 1y ago
Please don't fulminate. Please don't sneer... Please don't use Hacker News for political or ideological battle. It tramples curiosity. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
_DeadFred_ 1y ago
Wait until you hear about the Feds rounding up the farmers workers (right out of the fields) this week. Talk about dysfunctional.

[flagged]

You don't even need to involve the feds or the balance of fed-state power. Just slice up the damn state. There's just no avoiding dysfunction at its current scale. No one state government can serve so many diverse interests. On the east coast they solve this problem by having smaller states. Wouldn't want those Massachusetts doctors or NYC financiers sticking their dick in Pennsylvania's farming economy or Maine's lumber and tourism economy and screwing it all up. Or vise versa. And those are the problems that CA suffers from. If the argument not to is federal party politics there are plenty of solutions to slice and dice in a net-neutral manner.

pavel_lishin 1y ago
> On the east coast they solve this problem by having smaller states. That makes it sound like the eastern seaboard was originally the size of California, and then we recently decided to break them up when it was too big to effectively govern. (I mean, I guess you could say that is what happened during the colonization of the area, and the Revolutionary War... I'll leave that debate to someone who studied more history than I did.) Although I will say that New Jersey and NYC do constantly do things that affect the other one; it's just a function of NYC being a huge city, on the border of a dense state.
- singleshot_ 1y ago
  Did you know Maine used to be part of Massachusetts?
  - pavel_lishin 1y ago
    I did not!
- potato3732842 1y ago
  I should have said "doesn't have this problem much at all" rather than "solves" but regardless... >Although I will say that New Jersey and NYC do constantly do things that affect the other one; it's just a function of NYC being a huge city, on the border of a dense state. And their misery is their own doing so nobody feels bad for them in the way that people feel at least a little bad for CA famers who are getting crapped on by people the white collar workers elected or feels bad for LA being hamstrung by policy that appeals to SF and Sac or whatever.
buonu 1y ago
Yeah pretty sure CA suffers from humans not made up gibberish as you put it Soon as you open the door to the conversation though your simple pipe dream is clogged by every land developer, US or overseas, environmental groups, etc Because people outside the government exist and will engage. It’s opening a new lane on the freeway assuming it will help forever and it’s clogged in a couple years. People flock to a void and a new set of states and legal boundaries is a knowledge void to fill with special interests. But go ahead and forget every NGO, and people themselves and just put our agency at the whims of government. Not say government bad, just that no it won’t just be government dictating. And it should not be cause that’s how you get to “government bad”.
Terr_ 1y ago
> Just slice up the damn state. Not that simple. Other states, the small ones, will not permit [0] it to happen, since it would dilute their own unfair influence on the federal government, [1] the relic of an ancient join-up bribe from 1788. [0] https://constitution.congress.gov/browse/essay/artIV-S3-C1-4/ALDE_00013711/ https://constitution.congress.gov/browse/essay/artIV-S3-C1-4... [1] https://medium.com/qri-io/youre-probably-underrepresented-in-the-u-s-senate-a2c1f7068b06 https://medium.com/qri-io/youre-probably-underrepresented-in...

LPisGood 1y ago

California is one of the best functioning states in the country.

vondur 1y ago
I'm going to need some data support that. I would consider it the worst run state in the Union...
- LPisGood 1y ago
  Its education, wages, healthcare, opportunities, safety net, crime, etc are all top tier. Most claims to the contrary are just propaganda.
  - amanaplanacanal 1y ago
    Best in terms of outcomes, but I guess worst in terms of some people's preferred politics :)
  - deleted 1y ago
    [deleted]
  - vondur 1y ago
    California is almost at the bottom of all K-12 education metrics. It's crime rate in the cities is atrocious. It's near the top in poverty rates in the US. Most of these "safety net" benefits will quickly be cut in the upcoming years as the state is forced to deal with it's crippling budget deficits.
- jay_kyburz 1y ago
  Haha, just wait to see what happens when they succeed from the Union. :)

tomhow 1y ago

Please don't fulminate. Please don't sneer... Please don't use Hacker News for political or ideological battle. It tramples curiosity. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

_DeadFred_ 1y ago

Wait until you hear about the Feds rounding up the farmers workers (right out of the fields) this week. Talk about dysfunctional.