5 ms·

> The process is "cruel and unusual" when it's done to criminals but the same process is fine when you request it. Because consent matters. Many things work t

> The process is "cruel and unusual" when it's done to criminals but the same process is fine when you request it. Because consent matters. Many things work this way, they're wonderful or useful or helpful when you request/consent to it, but are despicably evil when done against your will.

noworriesnate 1y ago
Children are incapable of consent. In the same way, people who are having big mental burdens are not capable of consenting to this. It’s a system as ripe for abuse as allowing children to consent to sex. I’ve had my dark moments, but I learned to deal and I’m sooo glad I didn’t end it. You know, you always hear about people who survive a suicide attempt often find out after they’ve jumped that they really didn’t want to die! It’s an irreversible choice, and something about realizing that changes people.
- qualeed 1y ago
  >You know, you always hear about people who survive a suicide attempt often find out after they’ve jumped that they really didn’t want to die You don't just walk into a building and say "I would like to die please" and then get assistance on the spot. The two people I know who chose assisted death both had to go through various evaluations (over a period of several months) to determine that they thoroughly understood the decision they were making and that they had the mental capacity to make the decision. The comparison to a child 'consenting' to sex is completely nonsensical.
  - noworriesnate 1y ago
    Of course that’s not how it works. People will doctor shop. If one doctor rejects them, they go to the next and learn the right things to say to get the doctor to say yes. It’s just ripe for abuse. What they really need is help, not death.
    - qualeed 1y ago
      Someone who is determined enough to go through several years of doctor shopping to kill themselves will find a way to kill themselves whether there are assisted death programs or not. I agree that those (hypothetical) people need help. Though, to be honest, I'm not really convinced this is a real issue. Some of these programs have been around for multiple decades, and I've not seen any evidence that there is a pattern of abuse. Let alone the programs being apparently "ripe for abuse". Disallowing assisted death programs is not help, though. It is a punishment to people who deserve a death of dignity instead of months or years of unbearable suffering. If abuse of the medical system is a concern of yours, I feel like a much more prominent cause ( millions more preventable deaths) worth fighting is over-prescription of opiates. That's just my opinion, though. (And, for all I know, you're already fighting that fight too. If so, godspeed)
    - threemux 1y ago
      You are sharing an important perspective. 1 in 20 people die from assisted suicide in Canada today. You can't tell me the process is sound every time. That's a huge number. It's false dignity, and false compassion. Dignity does not come from control over one's life, and it does not come from the absence of suffering. Dignity comes from being made in the image and likeness of God. If anyone reading does not agree, well, that's fine, but I feel compelled to say it that someone might read it. How many people will we lose to despair that could have been helped? I say this both as a Catholic and someone that has suffered and recovered from mental illness.
      - qualeed 1y ago
        I had a lot to say to this comment. I think your comment is gross. But it will just end up in a debate about god, so I'm editing it out. However: >How many people will we lose to despair that could have been helped? Assisted death is not something reserved for mental illness, and it's dishonest to frame your comment like it is. Terminal, painful diseases are the leading reason for assisted death. In fact, many assisted death programs do not consider mental illness alone to meet the criteria of acceptance. The whole point of these programs is that there is no other help possible. Except, maybe, enough drugs to make the person basically dead anyways. Which, in my opinion, is not "help".

noworriesnate 1y ago

Children are incapable of consent. In the same way, people who are having big mental burdens are not capable of consenting to this. It’s a system as ripe for abuse as allowing children to consent to sex. I’ve had my dark moments, but I learned to deal and I’m sooo glad I didn’t end it. You know, you always hear about people who survive a suicide attempt often find out after they’ve jumped that they really didn’t want to die! It’s an irreversible choice, and something about realizing that changes people.

qualeed 1y ago
>You know, you always hear about people who survive a suicide attempt often find out after they’ve jumped that they really didn’t want to die You don't just walk into a building and say "I would like to die please" and then get assistance on the spot. The two people I know who chose assisted death both had to go through various evaluations (over a period of several months) to determine that they thoroughly understood the decision they were making and that they had the mental capacity to make the decision. The comparison to a child 'consenting' to sex is completely nonsensical.
- noworriesnate 1y ago
  Of course that’s not how it works. People will doctor shop. If one doctor rejects them, they go to the next and learn the right things to say to get the doctor to say yes. It’s just ripe for abuse. What they really need is help, not death.
  - qualeed 1y ago
    Someone who is determined enough to go through several years of doctor shopping to kill themselves will find a way to kill themselves whether there are assisted death programs or not. I agree that those (hypothetical) people need help. Though, to be honest, I'm not really convinced this is a real issue. Some of these programs have been around for multiple decades, and I've not seen any evidence that there is a pattern of abuse. Let alone the programs being apparently "ripe for abuse". Disallowing assisted death programs is not help, though. It is a punishment to people who deserve a death of dignity instead of months or years of unbearable suffering. If abuse of the medical system is a concern of yours, I feel like a much more prominent cause ( millions more preventable deaths) worth fighting is over-prescription of opiates. That's just my opinion, though. (And, for all I know, you're already fighting that fight too. If so, godspeed)
  - threemux 1y ago
    You are sharing an important perspective. 1 in 20 people die from assisted suicide in Canada today. You can't tell me the process is sound every time. That's a huge number. It's false dignity, and false compassion. Dignity does not come from control over one's life, and it does not come from the absence of suffering. Dignity comes from being made in the image and likeness of God. If anyone reading does not agree, well, that's fine, but I feel compelled to say it that someone might read it. How many people will we lose to despair that could have been helped? I say this both as a Catholic and someone that has suffered and recovered from mental illness.
    - qualeed 1y ago
      I had a lot to say to this comment. I think your comment is gross. But it will just end up in a debate about god, so I'm editing it out. However: >How many people will we lose to despair that could have been helped? Assisted death is not something reserved for mental illness, and it's dishonest to frame your comment like it is. Terminal, painful diseases are the leading reason for assisted death. In fact, many assisted death programs do not consider mental illness alone to meet the criteria of acceptance. The whole point of these programs is that there is no other help possible. Except, maybe, enough drugs to make the person basically dead anyways. Which, in my opinion, is not "help".