5 ms·

If you need to watermark it then you don't need to watermark it, though.

verisimi 1y ago
Ai content should absolutely be overtly marked imo. A beep should preceed ai speech, a visual for graphics, etc. This should have been a rule from the beginning. Pretending to be human, like pretending to be a police officer, should have consequences.
EGreg 1y ago
What does that even mean
- blargey 1y ago
  "If an artificial label/watermark is the only criteria by which you can differentiate <unwanted version of product> from <wanted version>, by definition there's nothing wrong with the unwanted product itself" Of course, "art" isn't one fixed standard of quality/features, and you can get "watermark-requiring parity" with average/bad/unmemorable creations but not the top percentile that's actually valued, for example.
  - EGreg 1y ago
    Can you apply the same logic to, say, factory farm meat, or conflict diamonds?
saberience 1y ago
So if I can make an AI agent which talks to you just like your husband/wife/girlfriend etc, I can just send you messages without identifying myself as an AI? I mean, if you can't tell the difference it doesn't matter right?
- vidarh 1y ago
  This is a ludicrous comparison, because in your scenario there is deception. If you choose to read a story, then unless it's purported to be by an author you know to be human, or explicitly claims to be written by a human, there is no deception.
  - saberience 1y ago
    It’s not a ludicrous comparison because people are saying that AI books should not label that they are by AI. My point is that books (fiction or non fiction) should label that they are by an AI or by a human. Someone said to me, if you can’t tell which did it, then it doesn’t matter. Well my assertion is that even if you can’t tell the difference, the provenance DOES matter.
    - vidarh 1y ago
      It is a ludicrous comparison because one involved deception and one didn't. That people are saying that AI books should not label that they are by AI does not alter that - absent a label people don't know the authorship process today. They don't know if the authors name is real - it often isn't. They don't know if it's been written by a ghostwriter. And now they don't know if it's written by an AI. If that matters to people, they are free to seek out books labelled as written by humans. If people were to publish books written by AI and deceptively label them as written by humans or include a fake author photo or otherwise deceive, then your comparison would make sense. And I would agree pople shouldn't do that. > Well my assertion is that even if you can’t tell the difference, the provenance DOES matter. Well, it doesn't matter to the person you mention, and it doesn't matter to me. If it matters to enough people, then maybe there will be market for labelling the books. For my part I have no interest in looking for a label like that, nor do I have any interest in putting them on the novels I've published.
      - saberience 1y ago
        But it does matter to you, that's precisely my point, we have already established that you don't want to be deceived. If someone gives you a book by "JRR Tolkien" and it's written by an AI, you're going to be pissed off. If your "girlfriend" sends you a note and it's written by an AI, you're going to be pissed off. If someone labels a book by "Jake Donaldson from New York" and it's ChatGPT, you're going to be pissed off. People don't like to be deceived or pay for something and get something different from the thing they thought they were buying. I don't want to buy something that an AI wrote, the only time I want to read AI writing, is if I directly ask it a question and get an answer.

Ai content should absolutely be overtly marked imo. A beep should preceed ai speech, a visual for graphics, etc. This should have been a rule from the beginning. Pretending to be human, like pretending to be a police officer, should have consequences.

EGreg 1y ago

What does that even mean

blargey 1y ago
"If an artificial label/watermark is the only criteria by which you can differentiate <unwanted version of product> from <wanted version>, by definition there's nothing wrong with the unwanted product itself" Of course, "art" isn't one fixed standard of quality/features, and you can get "watermark-requiring parity" with average/bad/unmemorable creations but not the top percentile that's actually valued, for example.
- EGreg 1y ago
  Can you apply the same logic to, say, factory farm meat, or conflict diamonds?

saberience 1y ago

So if I can make an AI agent which talks to you just like your husband/wife/girlfriend etc, I can just send you messages without identifying myself as an AI? I mean, if you can't tell the difference it doesn't matter right?

vidarh 1y ago
This is a ludicrous comparison, because in your scenario there is deception. If you choose to read a story, then unless it's purported to be by an author you know to be human, or explicitly claims to be written by a human, there is no deception.
- saberience 1y ago
  It’s not a ludicrous comparison because people are saying that AI books should not label that they are by AI. My point is that books (fiction or non fiction) should label that they are by an AI or by a human. Someone said to me, if you can’t tell which did it, then it doesn’t matter. Well my assertion is that even if you can’t tell the difference, the provenance DOES matter.
  - vidarh 1y ago
    It is a ludicrous comparison because one involved deception and one didn't. That people are saying that AI books should not label that they are by AI does not alter that - absent a label people don't know the authorship process today. They don't know if the authors name is real - it often isn't. They don't know if it's been written by a ghostwriter. And now they don't know if it's written by an AI. If that matters to people, they are free to seek out books labelled as written by humans. If people were to publish books written by AI and deceptively label them as written by humans or include a fake author photo or otherwise deceive, then your comparison would make sense. And I would agree pople shouldn't do that. > Well my assertion is that even if you can’t tell the difference, the provenance DOES matter. Well, it doesn't matter to the person you mention, and it doesn't matter to me. If it matters to enough people, then maybe there will be market for labelling the books. For my part I have no interest in looking for a label like that, nor do I have any interest in putting them on the novels I've published.
    - saberience 1y ago
      But it does matter to you, that's precisely my point, we have already established that you don't want to be deceived. If someone gives you a book by "JRR Tolkien" and it's written by an AI, you're going to be pissed off. If your "girlfriend" sends you a note and it's written by an AI, you're going to be pissed off. If someone labels a book by "Jake Donaldson from New York" and it's ChatGPT, you're going to be pissed off. People don't like to be deceived or pay for something and get something different from the thing they thought they were buying. I don't want to buy something that an AI wrote, the only time I want to read AI writing, is if I directly ask it a question and get an answer.