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> More capable AI systems make the world better. Support that. Now support it while including direct costs and externalities.

frozenseven 1y ago
If the cost and externality is that people are upset about it, I honestly don't care.
- Gerardo1 1y ago
  No you can start with actual money.
  - frozenseven 1y ago
    What about money? You can't force me to want (or not want) someone's goods and services. If you're worried about large scale automation and so forth, I'm fine with something like UBI.
    - sorcerer-mar 1y ago
      > More capable AI systems make the world better [so long as we also include the mitigations necessary due to the known and unknown downsides of AI] I guess that's what you meant?
      - frozenseven 1y ago
        In reference to automation and UBI? I don't see automation as a downside. Of course you need to readjust, as with any large scale change.
    - Gerardo1 1y ago
      > What about money? The hundreds of billions being sunk into AI. > You can't force me to want (or not want) someone's goods and services. What are you talking about? What does that have to do with anything in this conversation? > If you're worried about large scale automation and so forth I'm not. > I'm fine with something like UBI. Well as long as you're fine with UBI I guess we can put this conversation to rest. Seriously, if you don't want to actually participate in the conversation you can just ignore comments. It's fine.
      - frozenseven 1y ago
        In retrospect, we might realize that we didn't spend enough money on AI. Highest-leverage moment in history and such. But, ok. Let's leave it at that. Peace.
- EGreg 1y ago
  The cost and externality are: 1) Lesser cost: people start to not want each other for anything, and therefore lose income of any kind, and are gradually bred out of existence like with horses and oxen in the 20th century 2) Greater cost: bot swarms separate people and can bring about any sort of effect at scale, with people powerless to stop it — eg destroy reputations, bring about support for wars, take over control, or really anything
  - frozenseven 1y ago
    How did you jump from AI writing to humans becoming extinct? People find each other plenty interesting. Those who want to start families, work together, etc. can always do so. As for misuse, you are again catastrophizing. Just because a thing can be misused doesn't mean it will. That's obviously not the goal of AI.
    - EGreg 1y ago
      I didnt say extinct Horses and oxen aren’t extinct. Just nowhere near their peak where they had been before cars and tractors. They just won’t have as many children. It is already happening. People need each other less and less thanks to technology. And they won’t be paying each other for anything when they have AI. Soon romantic relationships will be disrupted also, it’s called a “superstimulus” (eg when birds prefer fake rounder eggs to their own). Dating robots. Extrapolate a few decades out and what do you see? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YuQqlhqAUuQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YuQqlhqAUuQ
      - frozenseven 1y ago
        Ah, seems like you walked back a bit on that. In any case, I don't see why you're so concerned about how other people choose to live their lives. For instance, if someone doesn't want kids, so what? You can't control that. Nor should you.
        EGreg 1y ago
        Just to be clear, you are supporting a world where humans are powerless, few in number, and don’t interact much with each other anymore. As I’ve been saying for a decade, we are building a zoo for ourselves.

frozenseven 1y ago

If the cost and externality is that people are upset about it, I honestly don't care.

Gerardo1 1y ago
No you can start with actual money.
- frozenseven 1y ago
  What about money? You can't force me to want (or not want) someone's goods and services. If you're worried about large scale automation and so forth, I'm fine with something like UBI.
  - sorcerer-mar 1y ago
    > More capable AI systems make the world better [so long as we also include the mitigations necessary due to the known and unknown downsides of AI] I guess that's what you meant?
    - frozenseven 1y ago
      In reference to automation and UBI? I don't see automation as a downside. Of course you need to readjust, as with any large scale change.
  - Gerardo1 1y ago
    > What about money? The hundreds of billions being sunk into AI. > You can't force me to want (or not want) someone's goods and services. What are you talking about? What does that have to do with anything in this conversation? > If you're worried about large scale automation and so forth I'm not. > I'm fine with something like UBI. Well as long as you're fine with UBI I guess we can put this conversation to rest. Seriously, if you don't want to actually participate in the conversation you can just ignore comments. It's fine.
    - frozenseven 1y ago
      In retrospect, we might realize that we didn't spend enough money on AI. Highest-leverage moment in history and such. But, ok. Let's leave it at that. Peace.
EGreg 1y ago
The cost and externality are: 1) Lesser cost: people start to not want each other for anything, and therefore lose income of any kind, and are gradually bred out of existence like with horses and oxen in the 20th century 2) Greater cost: bot swarms separate people and can bring about any sort of effect at scale, with people powerless to stop it — eg destroy reputations, bring about support for wars, take over control, or really anything
- frozenseven 1y ago
  How did you jump from AI writing to humans becoming extinct? People find each other plenty interesting. Those who want to start families, work together, etc. can always do so. As for misuse, you are again catastrophizing. Just because a thing can be misused doesn't mean it will. That's obviously not the goal of AI.
  - EGreg 1y ago
    I didnt say extinct Horses and oxen aren’t extinct. Just nowhere near their peak where they had been before cars and tractors. They just won’t have as many children. It is already happening. People need each other less and less thanks to technology. And they won’t be paying each other for anything when they have AI. Soon romantic relationships will be disrupted also, it’s called a “superstimulus” (eg when birds prefer fake rounder eggs to their own). Dating robots. Extrapolate a few decades out and what do you see? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YuQqlhqAUuQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YuQqlhqAUuQ
    - frozenseven 1y ago
      Ah, seems like you walked back a bit on that. In any case, I don't see why you're so concerned about how other people choose to live their lives. For instance, if someone doesn't want kids, so what? You can't control that. Nor should you.
      - EGreg 1y ago
        Just to be clear, you are supporting a world where humans are powerless, few in number, and don’t interact much with each other anymore. As I’ve been saying for a decade, we are building a zoo for ourselves.