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We are not lawyers. I don't care what their "parent" company is legally. In practice, IBM influences and affects every single decision of these projects/compan

We are not lawyers. I don't care what their "parent" company is legally. In practice, IBM influences and affects every single decision of these projects/companies. So yes, It is their parent company. Just look at what they were doing to X11. Holding it's development back just to monopolize wayland more.

happymellon 1y ago
How were they holding X11 back? No one wanted to support it, not just Red Hat.
- yolkedgeek 1y ago
  Read the news. That's why the maintainers forked it and are starting improvements on their own project. https://mail-index.netbsd.org/netbsd-users/2025/06/06/msg032747.html https://mail-index.netbsd.org/netbsd-users/2025/06/06/msg032... https://github.com/X11Libre/xserver https://github.com/X11Libre/xserver
  - biorach 1y ago
    > Read the news. That's why the maintainers forked it It looks more like one maintainer, and it's really not clear if his problem was with corporate control, or if he just fell out with everybody.
    - biorach 1y ago
      I've read some more. He's just nuts. Your talking nonsense.
  - ibotty 1y ago
    Not a maintainer. A disgruntled developer. And one with questionable patches. Please read the gitlab discussions before coming to this conclusion.
  - morsch 1y ago
    Previously discussed in https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44217735 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44217735
  - henearkr 1y ago
    I love the idea to fork X11 if it can accelerate its development or maintenance, however in this precise case it looks like the developer who created the fork has questionable opinions about e.g. DEI, vaccines, etc, but more importantly it looks like he is willing to include references to his opinions inside the project (cf the README.md)... So, it would be awesome if somebody would just go ahead and re-fork it removing just the controversial stuff.
  - happymellon 1y ago
    That reads like someone having a breakdown. Probably going to regret asking, but what is a "redskirt"? > doesn't matter which country you're coming from, your politicial views, your race, your sex, your age, your food menu, whether you wear boots or heels, whether you're furry or fairy, Conan or McKay, comic character, a small furry creature from Alpha Centauri, or just an boring average person. Anybody's welcomed, who's interested in bringing X forward. Whoh. So normally people who talk like this are far from "strong and stable", it's a call for "all lives matter". I wouldn't touch this racist heap. [Edit] And redskirt is just a misogynistic play on Star Trek red shirts. This dev sounds delightful.
    - bmn__ 1y ago
      > > doesn't matter […] your race […] Anybody's welcomed > I wouldn't touch this racist heap. You are clearly unhinged. I don't know how to bring you back to sanity, but as the americans say, one cannot reason someone out of a position they have not reasoned themselves into.
      - happymellon 1y ago
        The developer is an anti-vaxxer, uses obvious misogynistic language and is full of dog whistles toward racist language. I am perfectly fine.
        bmn__ 1y ago
        I notice you choose to shift the goalpost instead of engaging with the central point. The central point, stated clearly and unequivocally, is that the project maintainer wrote he welcomes anybody and does not care about race, and you call this racist, and thus there is a huge contradiction. I suspect you double down because you are so captured by your emotions that you cannot possibly admit the lapse in critical thinking. I predict going that path won't take you far on HN.
        abenga 1y ago
        > he welcomes anybody and does not care about race, Ah yes, the "all lives matter" rebuttal.
- pcpuser 1y ago
  Nah man you don't get it. They were "monetizing" Wayland. Whatever that means. It's certainly not because X is an insanely old and difficult to maintain codebase with questionable design decisions.
- cardanome 1y ago
  Give me an option to donate directly to X11 development and I am gonna support it.
  - happymellon 1y ago
    Give directly to X11 development? You'll need to find someone who actually wants to work on the codebase, and then you can donate to them? No one wants to work on it.
    - cardanome 1y ago
      There is lots of work no ones wants to do in their free time. That is why you pay people money. And why wouldn't someone be happy working on X11? It is an open source project, it is high impact work. I would jump at it instantly if someone paid me a competitive wage to do it. Or honestly even a bit under my normal expectation. Not every person wants to work on some ego-driven rewrite of a rewrite. Some people are fine working with legacy code. Also there is a counter example right above my post. Someone was so motivated to work on it, they even forked it: https://github.com/X11Libre/xserver https://github.com/X11Libre/xserver Granted the fork seems weirdly ideologically motivated but anyway, case in point.
      - growse 1y ago
        So with the plethora of people who care about progress and its success, and the army of people willing to work on it for a competitive wage, we should be seeing lots of activity on the project, right? > Give me an option to donate directly to X11 development and I am gonna support it. > I would jump at it instantly if someone paid me a competitive wage to do it You guys should meet up.

happymellon 1y ago

How were they holding X11 back? No one wanted to support it, not just Red Hat.

yolkedgeek 1y ago
Read the news. That's why the maintainers forked it and are starting improvements on their own project. https://mail-index.netbsd.org/netbsd-users/2025/06/06/msg032747.html https://mail-index.netbsd.org/netbsd-users/2025/06/06/msg032... https://github.com/X11Libre/xserver https://github.com/X11Libre/xserver
- biorach 1y ago
  > Read the news. That's why the maintainers forked it It looks more like one maintainer, and it's really not clear if his problem was with corporate control, or if he just fell out with everybody.
  - biorach 1y ago
    I've read some more. He's just nuts. Your talking nonsense.
- ibotty 1y ago
  Not a maintainer. A disgruntled developer. And one with questionable patches. Please read the gitlab discussions before coming to this conclusion.
- morsch 1y ago
  Previously discussed in https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44217735 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44217735
- henearkr 1y ago
  I love the idea to fork X11 if it can accelerate its development or maintenance, however in this precise case it looks like the developer who created the fork has questionable opinions about e.g. DEI, vaccines, etc, but more importantly it looks like he is willing to include references to his opinions inside the project (cf the README.md)... So, it would be awesome if somebody would just go ahead and re-fork it removing just the controversial stuff.
- happymellon 1y ago
  That reads like someone having a breakdown. Probably going to regret asking, but what is a "redskirt"? > doesn't matter which country you're coming from, your politicial views, your race, your sex, your age, your food menu, whether you wear boots or heels, whether you're furry or fairy, Conan or McKay, comic character, a small furry creature from Alpha Centauri, or just an boring average person. Anybody's welcomed, who's interested in bringing X forward. Whoh. So normally people who talk like this are far from "strong and stable", it's a call for "all lives matter". I wouldn't touch this racist heap. [Edit] And redskirt is just a misogynistic play on Star Trek red shirts. This dev sounds delightful.
  - bmn__ 1y ago
    > > doesn't matter […] your race […] Anybody's welcomed > I wouldn't touch this racist heap. You are clearly unhinged. I don't know how to bring you back to sanity, but as the americans say, one cannot reason someone out of a position they have not reasoned themselves into.
    - happymellon 1y ago
      The developer is an anti-vaxxer, uses obvious misogynistic language and is full of dog whistles toward racist language. I am perfectly fine.
      - bmn__ 1y ago
        I notice you choose to shift the goalpost instead of engaging with the central point. The central point, stated clearly and unequivocally, is that the project maintainer wrote he welcomes anybody and does not care about race, and you call this racist, and thus there is a huge contradiction. I suspect you double down because you are so captured by your emotions that you cannot possibly admit the lapse in critical thinking. I predict going that path won't take you far on HN.
        abenga 1y ago
        > he welcomes anybody and does not care about race, Ah yes, the "all lives matter" rebuttal.
pcpuser 1y ago
Nah man you don't get it. They were "monetizing" Wayland. Whatever that means. It's certainly not because X is an insanely old and difficult to maintain codebase with questionable design decisions.
cardanome 1y ago
Give me an option to donate directly to X11 development and I am gonna support it.
- happymellon 1y ago
  Give directly to X11 development? You'll need to find someone who actually wants to work on the codebase, and then you can donate to them? No one wants to work on it.
  - cardanome 1y ago
    There is lots of work no ones wants to do in their free time. That is why you pay people money. And why wouldn't someone be happy working on X11? It is an open source project, it is high impact work. I would jump at it instantly if someone paid me a competitive wage to do it. Or honestly even a bit under my normal expectation. Not every person wants to work on some ego-driven rewrite of a rewrite. Some people are fine working with legacy code. Also there is a counter example right above my post. Someone was so motivated to work on it, they even forked it: https://github.com/X11Libre/xserver https://github.com/X11Libre/xserver Granted the fork seems weirdly ideologically motivated but anyway, case in point.
    - growse 1y ago
      So with the plethora of people who care about progress and its success, and the army of people willing to work on it for a competitive wage, we should be seeing lots of activity on the project, right? > Give me an option to donate directly to X11 development and I am gonna support it. > I would jump at it instantly if someone paid me a competitive wage to do it You guys should meet up.