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Theoretically you hook up your whole disk encryption to your secureboot and it protects you against "evil maid" attacks. But yeah I'm pretty sure in practice it

by lmm 1y ago

Theoretically you hook up your whole disk encryption to your secureboot and it protects you against "evil maid" attacks. But yeah I'm pretty sure in practice it's about making it harder to install Linux or watch imported Blurays.

HPsquared 1y ago
With laptops, unauthorized physical access happens a lot more often. People lose them, they get stolen, etc.
- Y_Y 1y ago
  Presumably drive encryption is necessary anyway to protect lost/stolen devices, and at that point modifying the bootloader won't be useful. I see the value when the attacker manages to modify the device without the user knowing, and causes them to unknowingly use an attacker-controlled OS, but that's a vastly different threat model.
  - HPsquared 1y ago
    Some kind of secure enclave is necessary to prevent brute force attacks. Allows simple PIN unlock for users.
    - lmm 1y ago
      > Some kind of secure enclave is necessary to prevent brute force attacks. Eh maybe, what's the realistic threat model here? 99.9% of the time someone stealing a laptop isn't going to know or care what's on it, they'll just wipe it and sell the hardware. And in the rare case where you're seriously concerned about a competitor or spy making a targeted attack, you'll have a password policy where you're not using something bruteforceable.
      - patrakov 1y ago
        The supposed attack scenario is that the laptop is returned in a trojaned form with a kernel-based keylogger. The usual counterargument is that the laptop might be as well returned with a hardware-based keylogger.
    - Y_Y 1y ago
      I'd argue that it's neither necessary nor sufficient for securing your data. (Convenience is another worthwhile consideration, of course.) Cryptography should be enough to protect you from brute force, if you care about such things. I don't think it would be controversial to say that it's much more likely your particular secure enclave is broken than your encryption scheme (assuming you choose something appropriate and you're not on the NSA's radar).
      - HPsquared 1y ago
        It's just really convenient to key in a 6-digit PIN.
miki123211 1y ago
I suspect the actual reason is a lot more banal, it's enterprises asking for it. People who own fleets of devices and need to keep them secure don't care about homegrown Linux distributions, they want to minimize the fallout from that one employee installing the "FlashPlayer update" again. Those are the people driving the concerns of Microsoft and computer vendors.
- lmm 1y ago
  > People who own fleets of devices and need to keep them secure don't care about homegrown Linux distributions, they want to minimize the fallout from that one employee installing the "FlashPlayer update" again. How does secure boot help with that? Those kind of users aren't going to be pulling the CMOS battery to reset the BIOS password.
- PeterStuer 1y ago
  If by 'enterprises' you mean Disney and Sony, I fully agree.

by lmm 1y ago

HPsquared 1y ago

With laptops, unauthorized physical access happens a lot more often. People lose them, they get stolen, etc.

Y_Y 1y ago
Presumably drive encryption is necessary anyway to protect lost/stolen devices, and at that point modifying the bootloader won't be useful. I see the value when the attacker manages to modify the device without the user knowing, and causes them to unknowingly use an attacker-controlled OS, but that's a vastly different threat model.
- HPsquared 1y ago
  Some kind of secure enclave is necessary to prevent brute force attacks. Allows simple PIN unlock for users.
  - lmm 1y ago
    > Some kind of secure enclave is necessary to prevent brute force attacks. Eh maybe, what's the realistic threat model here? 99.9% of the time someone stealing a laptop isn't going to know or care what's on it, they'll just wipe it and sell the hardware. And in the rare case where you're seriously concerned about a competitor or spy making a targeted attack, you'll have a password policy where you're not using something bruteforceable.
    - patrakov 1y ago
      The supposed attack scenario is that the laptop is returned in a trojaned form with a kernel-based keylogger. The usual counterargument is that the laptop might be as well returned with a hardware-based keylogger.
  - Y_Y 1y ago
    I'd argue that it's neither necessary nor sufficient for securing your data. (Convenience is another worthwhile consideration, of course.) Cryptography should be enough to protect you from brute force, if you care about such things. I don't think it would be controversial to say that it's much more likely your particular secure enclave is broken than your encryption scheme (assuming you choose something appropriate and you're not on the NSA's radar).
    - HPsquared 1y ago
      It's just really convenient to key in a 6-digit PIN.

miki123211 1y ago

I suspect the actual reason is a lot more banal, it's enterprises asking for it. People who own fleets of devices and need to keep them secure don't care about homegrown Linux distributions, they want to minimize the fallout from that one employee installing the "FlashPlayer update" again. Those are the people driving the concerns of Microsoft and computer vendors.

lmm 1y ago
> People who own fleets of devices and need to keep them secure don't care about homegrown Linux distributions, they want to minimize the fallout from that one employee installing the "FlashPlayer update" again. How does secure boot help with that? Those kind of users aren't going to be pulling the CMOS battery to reset the BIOS password.
PeterStuer 1y ago
If by 'enterprises' you mean Disney and Sony, I fully agree.