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OpenAI doesn’t (currently) sell ads. I really cannot see a world where they’re wanting to sell ads to their API users only? It’s not like you need a phone numbe

OpenAI doesn’t (currently) sell ads. I really cannot see a world where they’re wanting to sell ads to their API users only? It’s not like you need a phone number to use ChatGPT. To me the obvious example is fraud/abuse protection.

hnaccount_rng 1y ago
They don’t need to. It’s totally sufficient that they can correlate your chat history with your identity. That makes other identifiers more valuable, if they can extract your interests
- brookst 1y ago
  It’s a good conspiracy theory, but of course it’s scoped to only ChatGPT users who are also developers and using specifically the o3 model via API. So if it is a conspiracy, it’s a fairly non-ambitious one.
- cmenge 1y ago
  The typical use case of an API is not that you personally use it. I have hundreds of clients all go through my API key, and in most cases they themselves are companies who have n clients.
lcnPylGDnU4H9OF 1y ago
> It’s not like you need a phone number to use ChatGPT. I’m pretty sure you do. Claude too. The only chatbot company I’ve made an account with is Mistral specifically because a phone number was not a registration requirement.
- ax0ar 1y ago
  They also require it now.
prmoustache 1y ago
The fact they don't sell ads doesn't mean they are not in the business of selling users data to third parties. Also Netflix wasn't initially selling ads and there you have after increasing the price of their plans drastically in the last few years the ad supported subscription is probably the #1 plans because most people aren't willing to shed 15 to 25usd/€ every month to watch content that is already littered with ads.
- fsmv 1y ago
  If you sell ads you're actually incentivised not to sell data because then your competitors would be able to reach your users without paying you
  - ethbr1 1y ago
    You're incentivized not to sell targeting data, but you're very incentivized to collect and maintain as much of it as you can, and then offer access using it as a service. So, at the end of your day, company X has an overdetailed profile of you, rather than each advertiser. (And also, at least in the US, can repackage and sell that data into various products if it chooses)
KomoD 1y ago
> It’s not like you need a phone number to use ChatGPT. When I signed up I had to do exactly that.
hshdhdhj4444 1y ago
They may not sell ads. They may still buy data from ad companies and store credit cards, etc. Many of them link users based on phone number.
- azinman2 1y ago
  But to do what with api users? Most api users won’t be individuals…
  - KomoD 1y ago
    I bet there's way more individuals than companies that use the API
jazzyjackson 1y ago
You're thinking ads are to advertise products. Ads are to modify behavior to make you more likely to buy products. ChatGPT has the capacity to modify behavior more subtly than any advertising ever devised. Aggregating knowledge on the person on the other end of the line is key in knowing how to nudge them toward the target behavior. (Note this target behavior may be how to vote in an election, or how to feel about various hot topics.)
- ethbr1 1y ago
  > Aggregating knowledge on the person on the other end of the line is key in knowing how to nudge them toward the target behavior. It also, as Google learned, enables you to increase your revenue per placement. Advertisers will pay more for placement with their desired audience.
codedokode 1y ago
Obvious goal is to know the identity of users.
godelski 1y ago
> To me the obvious example is fraud/abuse protection. Phones are notorious for spam... Seriously. How can the most prolific means of spam be used to prevent fraud and abuse? (Okay, maybe email is a little more prolific?) Like have you never received a spam call or text? Obviously fraudsters and abusers know how to exploit those systems... it can't be more obvious...
- azinman2 1y ago
  It costs money to get a phone number. It’s about friction, not elimination. What would you do instead?
  - godelski 1y ago
    I'm saying it clearly isn't enough friction. It's not worth the privacy cost. Which let's be real, those numbers are then commonly sold to those same spammers, even if indirectly. You are also forgetting it is easy to mask, obscure, and hijack numbers. So it doesn't cost money per number, many times they can use their own number. There isn't a universal solution, which is the main problem here. Sometimes numbers make sense, most of the time not.
    - azinman2 1y ago
      Ok so you don’t like phone numbers. I get it. But you’re OpenAI. You need to do _something_. What do you do?
      - jazzyjackson 1y ago
        What are they trying to prevent again? Requiring a phone number is one kind of friction for free services like twitter, but this is a service where a user registers a credit card and authorizes charges, they have the legal name of the person paying for a service, what's the phone number for? It's not like OpenAI gives me their phone number so I can call when I'm having an issue.
      - godelski 1y ago

hnaccount_rng 1y ago

They don’t need to. It’s totally sufficient that they can correlate your chat history with your identity. That makes other identifiers more valuable, if they can extract your interests

brookst 1y ago
It’s a good conspiracy theory, but of course it’s scoped to only ChatGPT users who are also developers and using specifically the o3 model via API. So if it is a conspiracy, it’s a fairly non-ambitious one.
cmenge 1y ago
The typical use case of an API is not that you personally use it. I have hundreds of clients all go through my API key, and in most cases they themselves are companies who have n clients.

lcnPylGDnU4H9OF 1y ago

> It’s not like you need a phone number to use ChatGPT. I’m pretty sure you do. Claude too. The only chatbot company I’ve made an account with is Mistral specifically because a phone number was not a registration requirement.

ax0ar 1y ago
They also require it now.

prmoustache 1y ago

The fact they don't sell ads doesn't mean they are not in the business of selling users data to third parties. Also Netflix wasn't initially selling ads and there you have after increasing the price of their plans drastically in the last few years the ad supported subscription is probably the #1 plans because most people aren't willing to shed 15 to 25usd/€ every month to watch content that is already littered with ads.

fsmv 1y ago
If you sell ads you're actually incentivised not to sell data because then your competitors would be able to reach your users without paying you
- ethbr1 1y ago
  You're incentivized not to sell targeting data, but you're very incentivized to collect and maintain as much of it as you can, and then offer access using it as a service. So, at the end of your day, company X has an overdetailed profile of you, rather than each advertiser. (And also, at least in the US, can repackage and sell that data into various products if it chooses)

KomoD 1y ago

> It’s not like you need a phone number to use ChatGPT. When I signed up I had to do exactly that.

hshdhdhj4444 1y ago

They may not sell ads. They may still buy data from ad companies and store credit cards, etc. Many of them link users based on phone number.

azinman2 1y ago
But to do what with api users? Most api users won’t be individuals…
- KomoD 1y ago
  I bet there's way more individuals than companies that use the API

jazzyjackson 1y ago

You're thinking ads are to advertise products. Ads are to modify behavior to make you more likely to buy products. ChatGPT has the capacity to modify behavior more subtly than any advertising ever devised. Aggregating knowledge on the person on the other end of the line is key in knowing how to nudge them toward the target behavior. (Note this target behavior may be how to vote in an election, or how to feel about various hot topics.)

ethbr1 1y ago
> Aggregating knowledge on the person on the other end of the line is key in knowing how to nudge them toward the target behavior. It also, as Google learned, enables you to increase your revenue per placement. Advertisers will pay more for placement with their desired audience.

codedokode 1y ago

Obvious goal is to know the identity of users.

godelski 1y ago

> To me the obvious example is fraud/abuse protection. Phones are notorious for spam... Seriously. How can the most prolific means of spam be used to prevent fraud and abuse? (Okay, maybe email is a little more prolific?) Like have you never received a spam call or text? Obviously fraudsters and abusers know how to exploit those systems... it can't be more obvious...

azinman2 1y ago
It costs money to get a phone number. It’s about friction, not elimination. What would you do instead?
- godelski 1y ago
  I'm saying it clearly isn't enough friction. It's not worth the privacy cost. Which let's be real, those numbers are then commonly sold to those same spammers, even if indirectly. You are also forgetting it is easy to mask, obscure, and hijack numbers. So it doesn't cost money per number, many times they can use their own number. There isn't a universal solution, which is the main problem here. Sometimes numbers make sense, most of the time not.
  - azinman2 1y ago
    Ok so you don’t like phone numbers. I get it. But you’re OpenAI. You need to do _something_. What do you do?
    - jazzyjackson 1y ago
      What are they trying to prevent again? Requiring a phone number is one kind of friction for free services like twitter, but this is a service where a user registers a credit card and authorizes charges, they have the legal name of the person paying for a service, what's the phone number for? It's not like OpenAI gives me their phone number so I can call when I'm having an issue.
    - godelski 1y ago