5 ms·

German 'porn pirates' to be publicly named

22 points by stfu 14y ago

jeltz 14y ago
I have no idea about German law. But does this not risk qualifying as extortion? Pay or we go publish your name. I do not think it matters much that there is a crime involved, it can still be extortion.
- luriel 14y ago
  > I do not think it matters much that there is a crime involved, it can still be extortion. Not even a crime, an accusation.
- andreasvc 14y ago
  The way I read it they publish the names unconditionally, and then you get the option of paying money as a settlement to avoid being part of the following lawsuit.
- jlgreco 14y ago
  I think you are probably right about that. I wonder though what it would be if they were naming people instead of attempting to sue/fine them. If they named everybody and made no attempt to actually extort something. Maybe libel/slander laws would kick in at that point.
  - onli 14y ago
    Not maybe, surely. That would be publishing of an information, and i think the media law would kick in. The reputation of a person is protected and may only be harmed by proven/qualified allegations. So this would surely be illegal over here. As Argorak also stated, the german public - the lawyers giving statements - also believe this.
  - cremnob 14y ago
    There isn't any defamation when the thing being said is a fact.
    - jlgreco 14y ago
      This is true in the US, but not necessarily in other countries.
Argorak 14y ago
"Under German law, solicitors are allowed to publish the names of those accused by their clients." ....ahem... no. What he is referring to: There was a court decision that solicitors are "generally" allowed to name their clients and those accused by the clients (http://www.bverfg.de/entscheidungen/rk20071212_1bvr162506.html http://www.bverfg.de/entscheidungen/rk20071212_1bvr162506.ht..., german, sorry), but this was in a professional context. The application on a private level is unclear. The court ruled that it would be a restriction of the solicitors right of free profession if he were not to. But this is not absolute, the court only ruled that its generally possible, but other reasons might weight heavier. There is still the possibility that naming the accused in a process involving porn is an illegal invasion of privacy and - quite frankly - extortion and the right of the accused weights higher. The general consensus in germany is that this case is pretty clear and will fail in court if it wasn't some kind of advertisement joke.
vasco 14y ago
I guess they can only keep this up if they do it in small batches. Once you get like 5 million people listed the extortion party ends since http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tVNjnyD38UA http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tVNjnyD38UA
zerostar07 14y ago
"identified as having downloaded pornography" I assume illegally?
- fosap 14y ago
  Yes, of course.
chrislloyd 14y ago
Porn has become so culturally acceptable I doubt many people will pay up.
- fosap 14y ago
  The most embarrassing thing is you got caught and therefor "can't into internets".
- stephengillie 14y ago
  If my name were published as a list of humans who view pornography, I would not care.
- tomjen3 14y ago
  Not if it is BDSM (it is abuse claims those who don't like it), rape porn (rape is bad, but murder is worse, yet action movies routinely kill a lot of people but somehow that is not a problem but fake filmed rape is), goat porn, midget porn, etc.
  - KaoruAoiShiho 14y ago
    Because there's actually such a thing as legitimate murder (soldiers, etc) and no such thing as legitimate rape.
    - tsotha 14y ago
      Eh, almost. There is such a thing as legitimate killing, but murder is a crime by definition.
    - noahc 14y ago
      The gentleman from missori would would disagree with you.
      - anamax 14y ago
        > The gentleman from missori would would disagree with you. Actually, he doesn't. What he said is that women who are raped are capable of reducing their odds of conception by some sort of physiological/emotional response. While wacky, that's not the same as denying that rape exists. And, that wacky is basically the flip side of a very common belief among "the right people", namely that one can affect conception odds through various new age techniques, including meditation.
pav3l 14y ago
Sounds familiar? http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2011/08/mugshots/ http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2011/08/mugshots/
spqr 14y ago
I see a lot of profit potential here. Step 1: Send blind links of over-the-top porn videos via email to people Step 2: Ask my victim (i.e. customer) for $800 for viewing the video Step 3: If they don't pay up, publish their name on a website as a "porn pirate" I wonder how many people would pay?
tsotha 14y ago
In the US you could probably get away with this until you made a mistake and published the name of someone who could show they'd never downloaded your porn. And by the time their legal team was done with you your net profit would end up being, like, minus twenty million dollars. I've always heard German law is more strict when it comes to privacy. Wouldn't something similar occur?

22 points by stfu 14y ago

jeltz 14y ago

I have no idea about German law. But does this not risk qualifying as extortion? Pay or we go publish your name. I do not think it matters much that there is a crime involved, it can still be extortion.

luriel 14y ago
> I do not think it matters much that there is a crime involved, it can still be extortion. Not even a crime, an accusation.
andreasvc 14y ago
The way I read it they publish the names unconditionally, and then you get the option of paying money as a settlement to avoid being part of the following lawsuit.
jlgreco 14y ago
I think you are probably right about that. I wonder though what it would be if they were naming people instead of attempting to sue/fine them. If they named everybody and made no attempt to actually extort something. Maybe libel/slander laws would kick in at that point.
- onli 14y ago
  Not maybe, surely. That would be publishing of an information, and i think the media law would kick in. The reputation of a person is protected and may only be harmed by proven/qualified allegations. So this would surely be illegal over here. As Argorak also stated, the german public - the lawyers giving statements - also believe this.
- cremnob 14y ago
  There isn't any defamation when the thing being said is a fact.
  - jlgreco 14y ago
    This is true in the US, but not necessarily in other countries.

Argorak 14y ago

"Under German law, solicitors are allowed to publish the names of those accused by their clients." ....ahem... no. What he is referring to: There was a court decision that solicitors are "generally" allowed to name their clients and those accused by the clients (http://www.bverfg.de/entscheidungen/rk20071212_1bvr162506.html http://www.bverfg.de/entscheidungen/rk20071212_1bvr162506.ht..., german, sorry), but this was in a professional context. The application on a private level is unclear. The court ruled that it would be a restriction of the solicitors right of free profession if he were not to. But this is not absolute, the court only ruled that its generally possible, but other reasons might weight heavier. There is still the possibility that naming the accused in a process involving porn is an illegal invasion of privacy and - quite frankly - extortion and the right of the accused weights higher. The general consensus in germany is that this case is pretty clear and will fail in court if it wasn't some kind of advertisement joke.

vasco 14y ago

I guess they can only keep this up if they do it in small batches. Once you get like 5 million people listed the extortion party ends since http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tVNjnyD38UA http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tVNjnyD38UA

zerostar07 14y ago

"identified as having downloaded pornography" I assume illegally?

fosap 14y ago
Yes, of course.

chrislloyd 14y ago

Porn has become so culturally acceptable I doubt many people will pay up.

fosap 14y ago
The most embarrassing thing is you got caught and therefor "can't into internets".
stephengillie 14y ago
If my name were published as a list of humans who view pornography, I would not care.
tomjen3 14y ago
Not if it is BDSM (it is abuse claims those who don't like it), rape porn (rape is bad, but murder is worse, yet action movies routinely kill a lot of people but somehow that is not a problem but fake filmed rape is), goat porn, midget porn, etc.
- KaoruAoiShiho 14y ago
  Because there's actually such a thing as legitimate murder (soldiers, etc) and no such thing as legitimate rape.
  - tsotha 14y ago
    Eh, almost. There is such a thing as legitimate killing, but murder is a crime by definition.
  - noahc 14y ago
    The gentleman from missori would would disagree with you.
    - anamax 14y ago
      > The gentleman from missori would would disagree with you. Actually, he doesn't. What he said is that women who are raped are capable of reducing their odds of conception by some sort of physiological/emotional response. While wacky, that's not the same as denying that rape exists. And, that wacky is basically the flip side of a very common belief among "the right people", namely that one can affect conception odds through various new age techniques, including meditation.

pav3l 14y ago

Sounds familiar? http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2011/08/mugshots/ http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2011/08/mugshots/

spqr 14y ago

I see a lot of profit potential here. Step 1: Send blind links of over-the-top porn videos via email to people Step 2: Ask my victim (i.e. customer) for $800 for viewing the video Step 3: If they don't pay up, publish their name on a website as a "porn pirate" I wonder how many people would pay?

tsotha 14y ago

In the US you could probably get away with this until you made a mistake and published the name of someone who could show they'd never downloaded your porn. And by the time their legal team was done with you your net profit would end up being, like, minus twenty million dollars. I've always heard German law is more strict when it comes to privacy. Wouldn't something similar occur?