3 ms·

I like the idea, but I see no reason to shield the management that demanded this of the rank and file. Accountability should go all the way up the chain.

kstrauser 1y ago
Yes, but it should include everyone involved, from top to bottom. We won't get those data theft misfeatures if engineers refused to work on them out of personal liability.
- jiggawatts 1y ago
  I once bluntly refused to deploy an app to production because it was a finance system that handled billions of dollars and the personal data of a million children. The HTTPS certificates couldn’t be organised on time (don’t ask), so I simply refused to deploy it using HTTP only “just for now” (=years). The look of stunned shock on the project manager’s face is something I’ll never forget. He was apoplectic with mixed rage and incredulity. “How dare you refuse a direct order!?” — but now picture a red face and spittle literally flying around the room. He immediately called my supervisor and up all the way to the CEO of my consultancy. That’s what happens when individual contributors push back. In general there are zero legal, corporate, or personal protections. “Do as I say or consequences.” is the norm. In this situation I was incredibly lucky that the CEO trusted my judgement and told the PM to take a hike. Even if I had been fired I would have been okay. Most people can’t take risks like that on principle. That’s fundamentally why enshittification happens, and why every mobile apps’ data collection dragnet would make an NSA spook blush. Only consequences for directors and up matter. They're the ones that need to feel the fear, not the poor outsourcer struggling to put food on his family table.
  - gizzlon 1y ago
    > Most people can’t take risks like that on principle. I actually think many people could, and the more who do, the easier it gets
  - account42 1y ago
    How many software developers do you think are struggling to put food on the table?
    - noisy_boy 1y ago
      Would they be as confident of putting food on the table if they were not in SV or were in an age-group subject to ageism or had an immigration status that is subject to indirect pressure etc etc? All software engineer != unconditional privilege
    - myaccountonhn 1y ago
      If you're on a work visa you can be sent back if you lose your job afaik.
  - Lu2025 1y ago
    > He was apoplectic with mixed rage and incredulity. “How dare you refuse... If that's a reaction to a "no" in a professional setting, imagine what he could do in personal life.
  - kstrauser 1y ago
    Respect.
- pixxel 1y ago
  [dead]

kstrauser 1y ago

Yes, but it should include everyone involved, from top to bottom. We won't get those data theft misfeatures if engineers refused to work on them out of personal liability.

jiggawatts 1y ago
I once bluntly refused to deploy an app to production because it was a finance system that handled billions of dollars and the personal data of a million children. The HTTPS certificates couldn’t be organised on time (don’t ask), so I simply refused to deploy it using HTTP only “just for now” (=years). The look of stunned shock on the project manager’s face is something I’ll never forget. He was apoplectic with mixed rage and incredulity. “How dare you refuse a direct order!?” — but now picture a red face and spittle literally flying around the room. He immediately called my supervisor and up all the way to the CEO of my consultancy. That’s what happens when individual contributors push back. In general there are zero legal, corporate, or personal protections. “Do as I say or consequences.” is the norm. In this situation I was incredibly lucky that the CEO trusted my judgement and told the PM to take a hike. Even if I had been fired I would have been okay. Most people can’t take risks like that on principle. That’s fundamentally why enshittification happens, and why every mobile apps’ data collection dragnet would make an NSA spook blush. Only consequences for directors and up matter. They're the ones that need to feel the fear, not the poor outsourcer struggling to put food on his family table.
- gizzlon 1y ago
  > Most people can’t take risks like that on principle. I actually think many people could, and the more who do, the easier it gets
- account42 1y ago
  How many software developers do you think are struggling to put food on the table?
  - noisy_boy 1y ago
    Would they be as confident of putting food on the table if they were not in SV or were in an age-group subject to ageism or had an immigration status that is subject to indirect pressure etc etc? All software engineer != unconditional privilege
  - myaccountonhn 1y ago
    If you're on a work visa you can be sent back if you lose your job afaik.
- Lu2025 1y ago
  > He was apoplectic with mixed rage and incredulity. “How dare you refuse... If that's a reaction to a "no" in a professional setting, imagine what he could do in personal life.
- kstrauser 1y ago
  Respect.
pixxel 1y ago
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