4 ms·

That page is a joke. Ignoring reality does not manufacture a new reality. Four million might be the legal migration count, hard to say. We had caravans of te

That page is a joke. Ignoring reality does not manufacture a new reality. Four million might be the legal migration count, hard to say. We had caravans of tens of thousands of people constantly streaming into the US for four years. The video evidence is out there for everyone to see. News outlets that did not engage in hiding reality and promoting falsehoods had crews at the border every day for four years collecting video evidence of what was going on. If you care about understanding the truth, go to the US Customs and Border Protection website and look around. You can also cross check with Homeland Security and other official sources. And, yes, you will find data that predates the Trump administration...so you can't blame bias. For example, if I remember correctly, there were over THREE MILLION unauthorized entries in 2024.

kstrauser 1y ago
Imagine how long a caravan with an extra 8 million people would be. I mean, I’ve been to a Huskers football game and seen what the exit looked like, and this would be 100x more. If such a thing were being reported by multiple reputable sources, I’d be less inclined to roll my eyes at the preposterous idea.
- robomartin 1y ago
  [flagged]
  - V__ 1y ago
    A DHS post from 2025 is not reliable information, just reading the headline should be enough to notice that. The number of unauthorized immigrants living in the U.S. has been more or less stable for the last 20 years: https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2024/07/22/what-we-know-about-unauthorized-immigrants-living-in-the-us/ https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2024/07/22/what-we-k...
    - robomartin 1y ago
      > A DHS post from 2025 is not reliable information, just reading the headline should be enough to notice that. You are living in an incomprehensible fantasy my friend. Good luck.
      - V__ 1y ago
        I don't need luck, just time. This administration always fails and is proven wrong at the end.
      - shadowgovt 1y ago
        When the President is a known liar, and has hand-picked the secretary of the department, why should people trust the department's self-reports?
  - seadan83 1y ago
    The people chucking cinder blocks and protestors are unaffiliated. That is guilt by association, a logical fallacy. Seeing immigrants and perceiving an increased in crime, and citing that they are related is post facto rationalization fallacy. Let's see... what other logical fallacies are in here. Oh.. people emigrate and die, so the accumulation of numbers is not valid nor does that handle double counting. AFAIK a strong US economy generates around 250k jobs per month. Further, there were more jobs created under Biden than were lost during the pandemic. I'd also suggest if this all were a big deal, illegal entry ought to be elevated from a civil infraction. It is more severe in the eyes of the law to drive 25 hour than it is to overstay a visa.
    - robomartin 1y ago
      > The people chucking cinder blocks and protestors are unaffiliated. I didn't say they were and you have no clue if they are or are not. Even if you were personally there to demonstrate peacefully, no have no clue what forces are operating behind they scenes. And we know that part is true. One way to put it is that aspects of this is organized crime. They will eventually be discovered and held to pay for what they have done in a court of law. > Let's see... what other logical fallacies are in here Not a logical fallacy, but the most incomprehensible development over the years is that somehow large numbers of people think it is OK for people to just pour into the US as they wish, no controls, no admission criteria, nothing. And yet, the same people understand that this is not acceptable anywhere else in the world. Clearly there's nothing I can say to help people who are firmly chained inside the cave looking at shadows. The indoctrination is way too powerful. Some of us try, but, sadly, the only way this insanity will pass is for people to gain clarity on their own. Not sure what it will take. Time will tell. Perhaps this is your idea of what this country needs to become? https://i.imgur.com/JcjpHKe.png https://i.imgur.com/JcjpHKe.png Not going to happen. No way.
      - seadan83 1y ago
        Why then bring up the cinder block issue if it's unaffiliated? > Some of us try, but, sadly, the only way this insanity will pass is for people to gain clarity on their own. Not sure what it will take. Time will tell. I'd say it would take sound arguments. Meanwhile, your arguments are not sound. You did not address what I wrote. To rebut a 'guilt-by-association' criticism, you said "I didn't say they were [affiliated]". That confirms the criticism. You did not address the post-facto rationalization criticism at all. I also saw a person in a pokemon costume too. Until we can have some sound arguments and facts, it's very much a choose-your-own-adventure situation. Are we here to just yell at each other? I personally do think the country needs to maintain rule-of-law (with notable mention of the 1st amendment), and the full rule-of-law goes for everyone, police, protestors, and opportunists.
  - shadowgovt 1y ago
    What percentage of the 10 million recovered jobs were taken by incoming immigrants? People died and permanently retired during the pandemic. It's possible the 10 million number represents a restored workforce; it's also possible it represents a changed workforce. If the latter, that illegal immigration allowed the US to recover faster than it would have otherwise and the lesson from history is we're a stronger nation for easing immigration restrictions.
    - robomartin 1y ago
      > illegal immigration allowed the US to recover faster than it would have otherwise and the lesson from history is we're a stronger nation for easing immigration restrictions. There is no question whatsoever that immigration, legal and done correctly, is a force for good. As a legal immigrant, it understand this very well. In fact, I understand the entire process very well, including the illegal immigration part. You see, when I was six years old, my parents overstayed their tourist visa in the US. They were then told to leave and my entire family left. Two years later, after going through proper channels, we obtained permission to come to the US legally. I truly do not understand how people twist themselves into a pretzel to justify illegal entry into a country. Actually, it is worse than that, the only country where they seem to think this is OK is the US. Every single person who is for illegal immigration in the US understands why you cannot just move to New Zealand, for example, to stay and work there without permission. They also understand New Zealand's points system for the selection of who is granted permanent residency. Not in the US. Of course not. Proponents also say that not enough people are let in legally or that it is too slow. Two points to be made here. The entire planet wants to come to the US, so, yeah, it will take a couple of years (as it did for my family). Second, when millions of people enter illegally, the annual quota for legal immigration cannot be increased. Doing so would exacerbate the problem. So, illegal immigration actually hinders changes and growth of the legal immigration system. Finally, proponents of illegal immigrants are of the same ilk as those who propose raising tax rates for everyone except themselves. And, when they do include themselves, they don't lead by example and simply send more money than they owe to the government. Same with immigration. How? I break into your home with my entire family while you are on vacation. I start paying the bills; power, water, insurance, heck, I even pay the mortgage. Can we all stay in your home forever? You are welcome to come back from your vacation and share the home with us? Of course not. Nobody of sound mind would accept such a situation. How is breaking and entering into a country --any country-- justified and elevated to almost be a virtue? While not a perfect analogy, of course, this does illustrate a fundamental idea: You don't get to grab things (your iPhone, car, home, residency, benefits, etc.) by force and keep them just because you did. If the world worked that way we would all be walking around with a firearm strapped to our leg and blood would run down every street in the nation. Violating these fundamental rights is nothing less than destructive to society.
- lazyeye 1y ago
  The sources you consider "reputable" lie all the time...by cherry-picking, obsfucating, mis-direction, distorting, half-truths etc. They of course, flat-out lie too quite regularly too.
  - skeaker 1y ago
    This is a bad argument because it could very easily go either way. Post any source of yours for the 12 million number and I'll just as easily say it's fake too.
    - lazyeye 1y ago
      Exactly but pretending unreliable sources are reliable is a bad argument too. We are left in a very, very bad place when the media can't be relied on to tell the truth. But here we are..
johnnyanmac 1y ago
> Ignoring reality does not manufacture a new reality. I wish we could tell that to Trump. >We had caravans of tens of thousands of people constantly streaming into the US for four years. T Okay, and Biden deported more people than Trump's first term. Is that fact a joke too? >go to the US Customs and Border Protection website and look around. Okay, what am I looking for? The most recent news update was June 5th about building a wall in Arizona. I thought that 2016 narrative was over? >if I remember correctly, there were over THREE MILLION unauthorized entries in 2024. And >In Fiscal Year (FY) 2024, there were 271,484 individuals removed from the US by ICE (Immigration and Customs Enforcement). This number represents an increase of nearly 90% compared to the previous fiscal year. This data includes removals by ICE's Enforcement and Removal Operations (ERO). Why are we acting like Biden did nothing?
- robomartin 1y ago
  [flagged]
  - mindslight 1y ago
    And your talking points thrown out like some kind of analysis-ending gotcha have shielded you from seeing the truth. It matters much less that Biden was mentally unfit because responsibilities were delegated to advisors and a professional bureaucracy. That was the group project dynamic of our system of government that we took for granted. Now that bureaucracy has been smashed in favor of autocracy, and we're suffering the other demented guy - not merely as a figurehead, but getting straight raw dogged by his rotting brain as he destroys what's left of our distributed economy with a national sales tax, orders the American military to attack American cities, and preps for a uuuuge North Korean style parade. As Americans, we have a right to protest. That right does not go away when other people damage property, government property especially. Remember January 6, where there weren't even real ideals at stake but just a crowd riled up on fake news campaign propaganda that turned out to be utterly false? When things do get out of hand, which is far beyond a few destroyed government vehicles, it is up to the local police forces to set the balance between restoring order and that still existing first amendment right to protest. Despite LAPD having been doing this just fine, Trump is illegally escalating the situation to look strong for the useful idiots still following him, to distract from his hissy fit with Musk, and most importantly to take the focus off his Big Ugly Deficit Spending Inflation Bill poised to bankrupt our country. It seems like you need to have the realization that just because you've caught one tribe's media lying does not mean that you've found pure truth.

kstrauser 1y ago

Imagine how long a caravan with an extra 8 million people would be. I mean, I’ve been to a Huskers football game and seen what the exit looked like, and this would be 100x more. If such a thing were being reported by multiple reputable sources, I’d be less inclined to roll my eyes at the preposterous idea.

robomartin 1y ago
[flagged]
- V__ 1y ago
  A DHS post from 2025 is not reliable information, just reading the headline should be enough to notice that. The number of unauthorized immigrants living in the U.S. has been more or less stable for the last 20 years: https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2024/07/22/what-we-know-about-unauthorized-immigrants-living-in-the-us/ https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2024/07/22/what-we-k...
  - robomartin 1y ago
    > A DHS post from 2025 is not reliable information, just reading the headline should be enough to notice that. You are living in an incomprehensible fantasy my friend. Good luck.
    - V__ 1y ago
      I don't need luck, just time. This administration always fails and is proven wrong at the end.
    - shadowgovt 1y ago
      When the President is a known liar, and has hand-picked the secretary of the department, why should people trust the department's self-reports?
- seadan83 1y ago
  The people chucking cinder blocks and protestors are unaffiliated. That is guilt by association, a logical fallacy. Seeing immigrants and perceiving an increased in crime, and citing that they are related is post facto rationalization fallacy. Let's see... what other logical fallacies are in here. Oh.. people emigrate and die, so the accumulation of numbers is not valid nor does that handle double counting. AFAIK a strong US economy generates around 250k jobs per month. Further, there were more jobs created under Biden than were lost during the pandemic. I'd also suggest if this all were a big deal, illegal entry ought to be elevated from a civil infraction. It is more severe in the eyes of the law to drive 25 hour than it is to overstay a visa.
  - robomartin 1y ago
    > The people chucking cinder blocks and protestors are unaffiliated. I didn't say they were and you have no clue if they are or are not. Even if you were personally there to demonstrate peacefully, no have no clue what forces are operating behind they scenes. And we know that part is true. One way to put it is that aspects of this is organized crime. They will eventually be discovered and held to pay for what they have done in a court of law. > Let's see... what other logical fallacies are in here Not a logical fallacy, but the most incomprehensible development over the years is that somehow large numbers of people think it is OK for people to just pour into the US as they wish, no controls, no admission criteria, nothing. And yet, the same people understand that this is not acceptable anywhere else in the world. Clearly there's nothing I can say to help people who are firmly chained inside the cave looking at shadows. The indoctrination is way too powerful. Some of us try, but, sadly, the only way this insanity will pass is for people to gain clarity on their own. Not sure what it will take. Time will tell. Perhaps this is your idea of what this country needs to become? https://i.imgur.com/JcjpHKe.png https://i.imgur.com/JcjpHKe.png Not going to happen. No way.
    - seadan83 1y ago
      Why then bring up the cinder block issue if it's unaffiliated? > Some of us try, but, sadly, the only way this insanity will pass is for people to gain clarity on their own. Not sure what it will take. Time will tell. I'd say it would take sound arguments. Meanwhile, your arguments are not sound. You did not address what I wrote. To rebut a 'guilt-by-association' criticism, you said "I didn't say they were [affiliated]". That confirms the criticism. You did not address the post-facto rationalization criticism at all. I also saw a person in a pokemon costume too. Until we can have some sound arguments and facts, it's very much a choose-your-own-adventure situation. Are we here to just yell at each other? I personally do think the country needs to maintain rule-of-law (with notable mention of the 1st amendment), and the full rule-of-law goes for everyone, police, protestors, and opportunists.
- shadowgovt 1y ago
  What percentage of the 10 million recovered jobs were taken by incoming immigrants? People died and permanently retired during the pandemic. It's possible the 10 million number represents a restored workforce; it's also possible it represents a changed workforce. If the latter, that illegal immigration allowed the US to recover faster than it would have otherwise and the lesson from history is we're a stronger nation for easing immigration restrictions.
  - robomartin 1y ago
    > illegal immigration allowed the US to recover faster than it would have otherwise and the lesson from history is we're a stronger nation for easing immigration restrictions. There is no question whatsoever that immigration, legal and done correctly, is a force for good. As a legal immigrant, it understand this very well. In fact, I understand the entire process very well, including the illegal immigration part. You see, when I was six years old, my parents overstayed their tourist visa in the US. They were then told to leave and my entire family left. Two years later, after going through proper channels, we obtained permission to come to the US legally. I truly do not understand how people twist themselves into a pretzel to justify illegal entry into a country. Actually, it is worse than that, the only country where they seem to think this is OK is the US. Every single person who is for illegal immigration in the US understands why you cannot just move to New Zealand, for example, to stay and work there without permission. They also understand New Zealand's points system for the selection of who is granted permanent residency. Not in the US. Of course not. Proponents also say that not enough people are let in legally or that it is too slow. Two points to be made here. The entire planet wants to come to the US, so, yeah, it will take a couple of years (as it did for my family). Second, when millions of people enter illegally, the annual quota for legal immigration cannot be increased. Doing so would exacerbate the problem. So, illegal immigration actually hinders changes and growth of the legal immigration system. Finally, proponents of illegal immigrants are of the same ilk as those who propose raising tax rates for everyone except themselves. And, when they do include themselves, they don't lead by example and simply send more money than they owe to the government. Same with immigration. How? I break into your home with my entire family while you are on vacation. I start paying the bills; power, water, insurance, heck, I even pay the mortgage. Can we all stay in your home forever? You are welcome to come back from your vacation and share the home with us? Of course not. Nobody of sound mind would accept such a situation. How is breaking and entering into a country --any country-- justified and elevated to almost be a virtue? While not a perfect analogy, of course, this does illustrate a fundamental idea: You don't get to grab things (your iPhone, car, home, residency, benefits, etc.) by force and keep them just because you did. If the world worked that way we would all be walking around with a firearm strapped to our leg and blood would run down every street in the nation. Violating these fundamental rights is nothing less than destructive to society.
lazyeye 1y ago
The sources you consider "reputable" lie all the time...by cherry-picking, obsfucating, mis-direction, distorting, half-truths etc. They of course, flat-out lie too quite regularly too.
- skeaker 1y ago
  This is a bad argument because it could very easily go either way. Post any source of yours for the 12 million number and I'll just as easily say it's fake too.
  - lazyeye 1y ago
    Exactly but pretending unreliable sources are reliable is a bad argument too. We are left in a very, very bad place when the media can't be relied on to tell the truth. But here we are..

johnnyanmac 1y ago

> Ignoring reality does not manufacture a new reality. I wish we could tell that to Trump. >We had caravans of tens of thousands of people constantly streaming into the US for four years. T Okay, and Biden deported more people than Trump's first term. Is that fact a joke too? >go to the US Customs and Border Protection website and look around. Okay, what am I looking for? The most recent news update was June 5th about building a wall in Arizona. I thought that 2016 narrative was over? >if I remember correctly, there were over THREE MILLION unauthorized entries in 2024. And >In Fiscal Year (FY) 2024, there were 271,484 individuals removed from the US by ICE (Immigration and Customs Enforcement). This number represents an increase of nearly 90% compared to the previous fiscal year. This data includes removals by ICE's Enforcement and Removal Operations (ERO). Why are we acting like Biden did nothing?

robomartin 1y ago
[flagged]
- mindslight 1y ago
  And your talking points thrown out like some kind of analysis-ending gotcha have shielded you from seeing the truth. It matters much less that Biden was mentally unfit because responsibilities were delegated to advisors and a professional bureaucracy. That was the group project dynamic of our system of government that we took for granted. Now that bureaucracy has been smashed in favor of autocracy, and we're suffering the other demented guy - not merely as a figurehead, but getting straight raw dogged by his rotting brain as he destroys what's left of our distributed economy with a national sales tax, orders the American military to attack American cities, and preps for a uuuuge North Korean style parade. As Americans, we have a right to protest. That right does not go away when other people damage property, government property especially. Remember January 6, where there weren't even real ideals at stake but just a crowd riled up on fake news campaign propaganda that turned out to be utterly false? When things do get out of hand, which is far beyond a few destroyed government vehicles, it is up to the local police forces to set the balance between restoring order and that still existing first amendment right to protest. Despite LAPD having been doing this just fine, Trump is illegally escalating the situation to look strong for the useful idiots still following him, to distract from his hissy fit with Musk, and most importantly to take the focus off his Big Ugly Deficit Spending Inflation Bill poised to bankrupt our country. It seems like you need to have the realization that just because you've caught one tribe's media lying does not mean that you've found pure truth.