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More and more I don't understand what's happening with all of these political articles making it to the front page of HN and stuffed full of charged comments an

More and more I don't understand what's happening with all of these political articles making it to the front page of HN and stuffed full of charged comments and lots of grey. We may be smart techies but the arguments here about politics seem awfully reductive. We're out of our lane on most of this. What's with all the hate here? The commentary here feels like its sliding it's way towards Reddit. Maybe I'm wrong, or maybe it's accidental, or maybe it's on purpose? Hoping not to lose my faith in the quality of discourse on this website.

LexiMax 1y ago
You are seeing the outcome of structural problems that plague any site that puts pseudo-moderation tools into its users hands. Voting and flagging has been weaponized on this site for far longer than most HN users would care to admit. In fact, I feel like HN is much worse about promoting echo chamber behavior than Reddit, due to the visibility differences between a comment being downvoted/flagged dead, as opposed to merely being greyed out and collapsed. If you haven't noticed it before now, it's because the incentive structure is weighed heavily in favor of the echo chamber. Those who engage in good faith eventually get tired of their comments being hidden by an unaccountable mob and leave - and to be clear, I am speaking in the past tense, as in this has already happened to HN several times over.
spencerflem 1y ago
I think its reflective of broader society. For this issue in specific- You either think sending the military to break up protests against the wishes of the governor and mayor and against the bounds of the constituion is a problem, or you are insane. When ICE wears masks and whisks people off the street and sends them to overseas torture camps without warning or due process, you are either opposed or insane. There's honestly no room for nuance on this. We're reaching the point where Trump is sending the military to enforce his unconstitutional actions. Things are awful right now and are about to get so much worse. To be clear- if you support what's happening here: you are a bad person. i genuinely hate you.
- lordfrito 1y ago
  > To be clear- if you support what's happening here: you are a bad person. i genuinely hate you. This is the kind of political reductionism I was referring to. It's not OK to "genuinely hate" a person (or group of people) you've never even met, based on a single binary opinion you hold.. that's some serious "othering" going on. People aren't so black and white. If your comment was meant as sarcasm I don't get it.
  - spencerflem 1y ago
    No its not sarcasm. And idk, but I'm just saying what I feel. I don't think its unique to this forum, more just what's going on in society. The issues happening are not the type of thing where we can agree to disagre. There isn't a middle road. The ideologies behind it are based on hate and fear and greed. America's not going to be a democracy much longer and friends of mine are in life threatening danger. I could not be friends with someone who supported this IRL or online.
    - CapricornNoble 1y ago
      > And idk, but I'm just saying what I feel. You are saying what you feel, but what do you think? > The ideologies behind it are based on hate and fear and greed. Organizations across the political spectrum manipulating the emotions of the populace is exactly how we got to this massively fragmented culture where people feel it's appropriate to hate their fellow citizens.
      - spencerflem 1y ago
        Masked men are grabbing people off the streets and sending them to overseas torture camps in El Salvador with no chance of appeal. If you think being mad at that is me being manipulated I don't know what to tell you.
        CapricornNoble 1y ago
        "Being mad" at deportations in and of itself isn't the problem. It's getting to a place, mentally, where you feel that other Americans holding a position in any way contrary to your own can only be insane and/or evil. Something shattered after 9/11 and especially after Occupy Wall Street, where Americans went from vigorous disagreement over policy implementations despite a common culture (Monday Night Football and apple pie, etc...) to constantly "othering" what should be an in-group identity and painting people as evil incarnate.

LexiMax 1y ago

You are seeing the outcome of structural problems that plague any site that puts pseudo-moderation tools into its users hands. Voting and flagging has been weaponized on this site for far longer than most HN users would care to admit. In fact, I feel like HN is much worse about promoting echo chamber behavior than Reddit, due to the visibility differences between a comment being downvoted/flagged dead, as opposed to merely being greyed out and collapsed. If you haven't noticed it before now, it's because the incentive structure is weighed heavily in favor of the echo chamber. Those who engage in good faith eventually get tired of their comments being hidden by an unaccountable mob and leave - and to be clear, I am speaking in the past tense, as in this has already happened to HN several times over.

spencerflem 1y ago

I think its reflective of broader society. For this issue in specific- You either think sending the military to break up protests against the wishes of the governor and mayor and against the bounds of the constituion is a problem, or you are insane. When ICE wears masks and whisks people off the street and sends them to overseas torture camps without warning or due process, you are either opposed or insane. There's honestly no room for nuance on this. We're reaching the point where Trump is sending the military to enforce his unconstitutional actions. Things are awful right now and are about to get so much worse. To be clear- if you support what's happening here: you are a bad person. i genuinely hate you.

lordfrito 1y ago
> To be clear- if you support what's happening here: you are a bad person. i genuinely hate you. This is the kind of political reductionism I was referring to. It's not OK to "genuinely hate" a person (or group of people) you've never even met, based on a single binary opinion you hold.. that's some serious "othering" going on. People aren't so black and white. If your comment was meant as sarcasm I don't get it.
- spencerflem 1y ago
  No its not sarcasm. And idk, but I'm just saying what I feel. I don't think its unique to this forum, more just what's going on in society. The issues happening are not the type of thing where we can agree to disagre. There isn't a middle road. The ideologies behind it are based on hate and fear and greed. America's not going to be a democracy much longer and friends of mine are in life threatening danger. I could not be friends with someone who supported this IRL or online.
  - CapricornNoble 1y ago
    > And idk, but I'm just saying what I feel. You are saying what you feel, but what do you think? > The ideologies behind it are based on hate and fear and greed. Organizations across the political spectrum manipulating the emotions of the populace is exactly how we got to this massively fragmented culture where people feel it's appropriate to hate their fellow citizens.
    - spencerflem 1y ago
      Masked men are grabbing people off the streets and sending them to overseas torture camps in El Salvador with no chance of appeal. If you think being mad at that is me being manipulated I don't know what to tell you.
      - CapricornNoble 1y ago
        "Being mad" at deportations in and of itself isn't the problem. It's getting to a place, mentally, where you feel that other Americans holding a position in any way contrary to your own can only be insane and/or evil. Something shattered after 9/11 and especially after Occupy Wall Street, where Americans went from vigorous disagreement over policy implementations despite a common culture (Monday Night Football and apple pie, etc...) to constantly "othering" what should be an in-group identity and painting people as evil incarnate.