4 ms·

How do you know they're illegal immigrants if not by means of due process?

deleted 1y ago
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porridgeraisin 1y ago
I'm not from America, so just a casual observer. Isn't it possible to do a simple database check with some kind of ID? Or biometric? Where I'm from both are registered for ~everyone so it's fairly simple to do a check. The point being that if the database does not have the record they must have been an illegal?
- weberc2 1y ago
  The US doesn't keep biometric data on every citizen or lawful resident, and the government can trivially lie or make a mistake about whether they did the database/ID check. This isn't a hypothetical, many legal residents and some citizens have been swept up, and without due process they have no ability to say, "I'm a legal resident" or "I'm a US citizen". They can just be shipped off to an El Salvadoran prison camp where the president can claim, "oops, I can't get them back because they're not in our jurisdiction any more".
- aaronbaugher 1y ago
  No, the US does not have a database of citizens or a national ID. There's been long-standing resistance to such a thing, as part of the general American distrust of centralized government and what a tyrannical government could do with that information. That resistance has even been bipartisan, coming more from the left or right depending on who is in power. So there's no quick database check. However, in practice, if you're a citizen, it's pretty easy to prove it. You'll be carrying forms of state-issued ID and you'll have a paper trail that makes it obvious. There's rarely much ambiguity over whether a particular person is here legally or illegally, as much as some might like to pretend there is.
  - gtirloni 1y ago
    Didn't ICE jail a legal student just the other day and refused to release him? I forget where but even the state's governor got involved.
    - deleted 1y ago
      [deleted]
    - pseudalopex 1y ago
      Marcelo Gomes da Silva? His visa expired apparently.[1] [1] https://apnews.com/article/marcelo-gomes-ice-massachusetts-arrest-volleyball-1356302a723f6f5b0a95028754f7291e https://apnews.com/article/marcelo-gomes-ice-massachusetts-a...
  - porridgeraisin 1y ago
    Hmm. Makes sense. Then couldn't the government have tapped into one of those processes, making it clear to everyone that the people that are being deported are illegal (or not) and saved themselves all the court cases?
    - pseudalopex 1y ago
      Yes if their goal was to deport people who immigrated illegally. No because the goal is to remove due process. The next step is to deport citizens convicted of crimes.[1] Then prosecute political opponents.[2] [1] https://www.npr.org/2025/04/16/nx-s1-5366178/trump-deport-jail-u-s-citizens-homegrowns-el-salvador https://www.npr.org/2025/04/16/nx-s1-5366178/trump-deport-ja... [2] https://www.npr.org/2024/10/21/nx-s1-5134924/trump-election-2024-kamala-harris-elizabeth-cheney-threat-civil-liberties https://www.npr.org/2024/10/21/nx-s1-5134924/trump-election-...
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]

deleted 1y ago

[deleted]

I'm not from America, so just a casual observer. Isn't it possible to do a simple database check with some kind of ID? Or biometric? Where I'm from both are registered for ~everyone so it's fairly simple to do a check. The point being that if the database does not have the record they must have been an illegal?

weberc2 1y ago
The US doesn't keep biometric data on every citizen or lawful resident, and the government can trivially lie or make a mistake about whether they did the database/ID check. This isn't a hypothetical, many legal residents and some citizens have been swept up, and without due process they have no ability to say, "I'm a legal resident" or "I'm a US citizen". They can just be shipped off to an El Salvadoran prison camp where the president can claim, "oops, I can't get them back because they're not in our jurisdiction any more".
aaronbaugher 1y ago
No, the US does not have a database of citizens or a national ID. There's been long-standing resistance to such a thing, as part of the general American distrust of centralized government and what a tyrannical government could do with that information. That resistance has even been bipartisan, coming more from the left or right depending on who is in power. So there's no quick database check. However, in practice, if you're a citizen, it's pretty easy to prove it. You'll be carrying forms of state-issued ID and you'll have a paper trail that makes it obvious. There's rarely much ambiguity over whether a particular person is here legally or illegally, as much as some might like to pretend there is.
- gtirloni 1y ago
  Didn't ICE jail a legal student just the other day and refused to release him? I forget where but even the state's governor got involved.
  - deleted 1y ago
    [deleted]
  - pseudalopex 1y ago
    Marcelo Gomes da Silva? His visa expired apparently.[1] [1] https://apnews.com/article/marcelo-gomes-ice-massachusetts-arrest-volleyball-1356302a723f6f5b0a95028754f7291e https://apnews.com/article/marcelo-gomes-ice-massachusetts-a...
- porridgeraisin 1y ago
  Hmm. Makes sense. Then couldn't the government have tapped into one of those processes, making it clear to everyone that the people that are being deported are illegal (or not) and saved themselves all the court cases?
  - pseudalopex 1y ago
    Yes if their goal was to deport people who immigrated illegally. No because the goal is to remove due process. The next step is to deport citizens convicted of crimes.[1] Then prosecute political opponents.[2] [1] https://www.npr.org/2025/04/16/nx-s1-5366178/trump-deport-jail-u-s-citizens-homegrowns-el-salvador https://www.npr.org/2025/04/16/nx-s1-5366178/trump-deport-ja... [2] https://www.npr.org/2024/10/21/nx-s1-5134924/trump-election-2024-kamala-harris-elizabeth-cheney-threat-civil-liberties https://www.npr.org/2024/10/21/nx-s1-5134924/trump-election-...
deleted 1y ago
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