4 ms·

It is quite obvious that you have not taught mathematics at a non specialized high school. You think the experience you and 3 other people each of whom got a P

It is quite obvious that you have not taught mathematics at a non specialized high school. You think the experience you and 3 other people each of whom got a Ph.D. at a good university in science and/or philosophy is somehow normative. You think this book could be taught to 15 year olds to anything more than a very small number of people is insane. Please go spend time in a classroom as a mathematics teacher before asserting such things. You might be right but your evidence is lacking. You clearly have no idea about the state of things in the average high school. EDIT: My wife is a physician who dropped out of high school. There are people who think that because she did it this proves that more than an extremely small number of such people could become physicians. They are wrong. She got lucky and the vast majority of high school dropouts can’t become physicians. People think that their experience going through high is indicative of what it is like on average and they advocate for positions based on their experience. It’s the “I did it therefore you can too” fallacy. You found 12 people who could learn this book in high school. You found them in university. They didn’t all go to the same high school. Each high school has very, very few students who could understand this book. High schools don’t have the resources to teach a class for just 2 or 3 students.

defrost 1y ago
Twelve, not three, in my first year university math 100 class, I gave three typical examples of the twelve. It was almost the only university in the state at that time, two others opened in the year or so prior and these were (at the time) free universities for any that got a sufficient TAE score (high school exam for tertiary entrance). All in all many more people were educated in mathematics or in their particular interests in this small state, and that began in primary and high school. I attended a non specialized high school in a remote corner of a large state (3x size of Texas) with a small population (less than 2 million at that time). I don't think that the book can be taught to any 15 year olds, I think it can easily be taught to 15 year old students interested in math, as other similar books have been. In a not disimilar manner I know others who started olympic level swimming training in high school as part of their high school curriculum. Not for everyone, just for those high school students with aptitude. I have spent time in a classroom as a mathematics assistant tutor, it was good pick up money during the five years I attended university. Naturally many people that were awarded Ph.D. attended high school, I'm unsure why you would choose to exclude them from the population of high school students. The state of things in average state run Western Australia high schools in the 1980s was that most student got mainstream education and students that showed promise in any number of different ares would get moved to specialised stream or invited to subsidised speciality camps; these existed for math, literature, theatre, music, sports, machining, etc. eg. Heath Ledger got more theatre exposure in his High School years in this state than the majority of other high school students .. the fact that they didn't go on to play the Joker in a major Hollywood production doesn't negate what he did in high school. You clearly have no idea about the average high school in the place and time to which I refer. My own son attended a state high school (free public education) that had an aviation course, he and his classmates built an aircraft over two years and then took turns flying it. ( https://www.kentstreetshs.wa.edu.au/aviation https://www.kentstreetshs.wa.edu.au/aviation ) It's sad that you seem to want to homogenize the high school experience to the least common denominator. EDIT: “I did it therefore you can too” - not a claim I made, please stop strawmanning. Again, there is nothing preventing a university level text being taught to high school students with aptitude and this actually happens in some education systems outside your ken. In parallel other advanced subjects and skills can also be taught to high school students with aptitude .. and some education systems do this. I'm sorry you apparently have not experienced such a system.
- redczar 1y ago
  ..not a claim I made, please stop strawmanning. What you’ve been saying is based on your experience (very limited). The essence of your beliefs are that you and 12 other people could have done this book on high school therefore it should be a class in high school. Though you have no evidence that high schools have the resources to give a class that very few people are qualified to take. The distribution of qualified students is such that each individual high school will on average have very few students capable of taking such a class. You went to high school and university and tutored some people. Therefore you know much more than me on what is appropriate to teach high schoolers. I just have 30 years of experiece teaching college level mathematics. Your arguements are compelling and I now agree with you.
  - fc417fc802 1y ago
    The irony of you making this comment in a thread about math. 12 per year out of a population of 2 million in a remote, thus likely under served, thus likely under performing region. My own experience is a rate closer to 1 per 35 in a reasonably well off region within the US.
    - deleted 1y ago
      [deleted]
    - redczar 1y ago
      You clearly have not taught mathematics at either the college level or the high school level. But your experience carries a great deal of weight. You are correct. I’ve taught mathematics at Purdue University, Florida State University, University of Kansas, various community colleges and in a prison. I don’t know what I’m talking about. The book in question should be a course at every high school. Each high school will certainly have enough students who can take such a course to justify having the course. By the way, don’t look up what an outlier is and don’t forget that your anecdote is, in fact, data.
      - fc417fc802 1y ago

defrost 1y ago

Twelve, not three, in my first year university math 100 class, I gave three typical examples of the twelve. It was almost the only university in the state at that time, two others opened in the year or so prior and these were (at the time) free universities for any that got a sufficient TAE score (high school exam for tertiary entrance). All in all many more people were educated in mathematics or in their particular interests in this small state, and that began in primary and high school. I attended a non specialized high school in a remote corner of a large state (3x size of Texas) with a small population (less than 2 million at that time). I don't think that the book can be taught to any 15 year olds, I think it can easily be taught to 15 year old students interested in math, as other similar books have been. In a not disimilar manner I know others who started olympic level swimming training in high school as part of their high school curriculum. Not for everyone, just for those high school students with aptitude. I have spent time in a classroom as a mathematics assistant tutor, it was good pick up money during the five years I attended university. Naturally many people that were awarded Ph.D. attended high school, I'm unsure why you would choose to exclude them from the population of high school students. The state of things in average state run Western Australia high schools in the 1980s was that most student got mainstream education and students that showed promise in any number of different ares would get moved to specialised stream or invited to subsidised speciality camps; these existed for math, literature, theatre, music, sports, machining, etc. eg. Heath Ledger got more theatre exposure in his High School years in this state than the majority of other high school students .. the fact that they didn't go on to play the Joker in a major Hollywood production doesn't negate what he did in high school. You clearly have no idea about the average high school in the place and time to which I refer. My own son attended a state high school (free public education) that had an aviation course, he and his classmates built an aircraft over two years and then took turns flying it. ( https://www.kentstreetshs.wa.edu.au/aviation https://www.kentstreetshs.wa.edu.au/aviation ) It's sad that you seem to want to homogenize the high school experience to the least common denominator. EDIT: “I did it therefore you can too” - not a claim I made, please stop strawmanning. Again, there is nothing preventing a university level text being taught to high school students with aptitude and this actually happens in some education systems outside your ken. In parallel other advanced subjects and skills can also be taught to high school students with aptitude .. and some education systems do this. I'm sorry you apparently have not experienced such a system.

redczar 1y ago
..not a claim I made, please stop strawmanning. What you’ve been saying is based on your experience (very limited). The essence of your beliefs are that you and 12 other people could have done this book on high school therefore it should be a class in high school. Though you have no evidence that high schools have the resources to give a class that very few people are qualified to take. The distribution of qualified students is such that each individual high school will on average have very few students capable of taking such a class. You went to high school and university and tutored some people. Therefore you know much more than me on what is appropriate to teach high schoolers. I just have 30 years of experiece teaching college level mathematics. Your arguements are compelling and I now agree with you.
- fc417fc802 1y ago
  The irony of you making this comment in a thread about math. 12 per year out of a population of 2 million in a remote, thus likely under served, thus likely under performing region. My own experience is a rate closer to 1 per 35 in a reasonably well off region within the US.
  - deleted 1y ago
    [deleted]
  - redczar 1y ago
    You clearly have not taught mathematics at either the college level or the high school level. But your experience carries a great deal of weight. You are correct. I’ve taught mathematics at Purdue University, Florida State University, University of Kansas, various community colleges and in a prison. I don’t know what I’m talking about. The book in question should be a course at every high school. Each high school will certainly have enough students who can take such a course to justify having the course. By the way, don’t look up what an outlier is and don’t forget that your anecdote is, in fact, data.
    - fc417fc802 1y ago