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Length + depth determines the appropriateness of a book at a given level. They go hand in hand and my comment was about this book. Not 1 or 2 chapters of it a

Length + depth determines the appropriateness of a book at a given level. They go hand in hand and my comment was about this book. Not 1 or 2 chapters of it and not 1 or 2 chapters of it dumbed down a bit.

defrost 1y ago
Again, while part of the book might be presented in a high school courses I took, a number of students that took such courses would read the entire book out of interest. I'm unsure how you were taught but we in Australia frequently had textbooks that were only partially taught in high school, leaving the rest as untested and for interest. This, as I'm sure you follow, means it would be fine as a text book despite only part of the text being taught. Many of my peers were recommended a list of texts to read in high school that were never fomally taught in high school. A couple of people that were in our circle at that time read such things before high school.
- redczar 1y ago
  It is quite obvious that you have not taught mathematics at a non specialized high school. You think the experience you and 3 other people each of whom got a Ph.D. at a good university in science and/or philosophy is somehow normative. You think this book could be taught to 15 year olds to anything more than a very small number of people is insane. Please go spend time in a classroom as a mathematics teacher before asserting such things. You might be right but your evidence is lacking. You clearly have no idea about the state of things in the average high school. EDIT: My wife is a physician who dropped out of high school. There are people who think that because she did it this proves that more than an extremely small number of such people could become physicians. They are wrong. She got lucky and the vast majority of high school dropouts can’t become physicians. People think that their experience going through high is indicative of what it is like on average and they advocate for positions based on their experience. It’s the “I did it therefore you can too” fallacy. You found 12 people who could learn this book in high school. You found them in university. They didn’t all go to the same high school. Each high school has very, very few students who could understand this book. High schools don’t have the resources to teach a class for just 2 or 3 students.
  - defrost 1y ago
    Twelve, not three, in my first year university math 100 class, I gave three typical examples of the twelve. It was almost the only university in the state at that time, two others opened in the year or so prior and these were (at the time) free universities for any that got a sufficient TAE score (high school exam for tertiary entrance). All in all many more people were educated in mathematics or in their particular interests in this small state, and that began in primary and high school. I attended a non specialized high school in a remote corner of a large state (3x size of Texas) with a small population (less than 2 million at that time). I don't think that the book can be taught to any 15 year olds, I think it can easily be taught to 15 year old students interested in math, as other similar books have been. In a not disimilar manner I know others who started olympic level swimming training in high school as part of their high school curriculum. Not for everyone, just for those high school students with aptitude. I have spent time in a classroom as a mathematics assistant tutor, it was good pick up money during the five years I attended university. Naturally many people that were awarded Ph.D. attended high school, I'm unsure why you would choose to exclude them from the population of high school students. The state of things in average state run Western Australia high schools in the 1980s was that most student got mainstream education and students that showed promise in any number of different ares would get moved to specialised stream or invited to subsidised speciality camps; these existed for math, literature, theatre, music, sports, machining, etc. eg. Heath Ledger got more theatre exposure in his High School years in this state than the majority of other high school students .. the fact that they didn't go on to play the Joker in a major Hollywood production doesn't negate what he did in high school. You clearly have no idea about the average high school in the place and time to which I refer. My own son attended a state high school (free public education) that had an aviation course, he and his classmates built an aircraft over two years and then took turns flying it. ( https://www.kentstreetshs.wa.edu.au/aviation https://www.kentstreetshs.wa.edu.au/aviation ) It's sad that you seem to want to homogenize the high school experience to the least common denominator. EDIT: “I did it therefore you can too” - not a claim I made, please stop strawmanning. Again, there is nothing preventing a university level text being taught to high school students with aptitude and this actually happens in some education systems outside your ken. In parallel other advanced subjects and skills can also be taught to high school students with aptitude .. and some education systems do this. I'm sorry you apparently have not experienced such a system.
- fc417fc802 1y ago
  I'll chime in as someone from the US who attended a public school and took a calculus class that used a university level text and did exactly as you described. Color me surprised when I arrived at university only to encounter that same book in use for the calculus course sequence. The person you're engaging with here clearly has an overly generalized view of the US educational system (and is overly confident in it). It's not surprising that there's a bit of variance - the place is rather large after all.

defrost 1y ago

Again, while part of the book might be presented in a high school courses I took, a number of students that took such courses would read the entire book out of interest. I'm unsure how you were taught but we in Australia frequently had textbooks that were only partially taught in high school, leaving the rest as untested and for interest. This, as I'm sure you follow, means it would be fine as a text book despite only part of the text being taught. Many of my peers were recommended a list of texts to read in high school that were never fomally taught in high school. A couple of people that were in our circle at that time read such things before high school.

redczar 1y ago
It is quite obvious that you have not taught mathematics at a non specialized high school. You think the experience you and 3 other people each of whom got a Ph.D. at a good university in science and/or philosophy is somehow normative. You think this book could be taught to 15 year olds to anything more than a very small number of people is insane. Please go spend time in a classroom as a mathematics teacher before asserting such things. You might be right but your evidence is lacking. You clearly have no idea about the state of things in the average high school. EDIT: My wife is a physician who dropped out of high school. There are people who think that because she did it this proves that more than an extremely small number of such people could become physicians. They are wrong. She got lucky and the vast majority of high school dropouts can’t become physicians. People think that their experience going through high is indicative of what it is like on average and they advocate for positions based on their experience. It’s the “I did it therefore you can too” fallacy. You found 12 people who could learn this book in high school. You found them in university. They didn’t all go to the same high school. Each high school has very, very few students who could understand this book. High schools don’t have the resources to teach a class for just 2 or 3 students.
- defrost 1y ago
  Twelve, not three, in my first year university math 100 class, I gave three typical examples of the twelve. It was almost the only university in the state at that time, two others opened in the year or so prior and these were (at the time) free universities for any that got a sufficient TAE score (high school exam for tertiary entrance). All in all many more people were educated in mathematics or in their particular interests in this small state, and that began in primary and high school. I attended a non specialized high school in a remote corner of a large state (3x size of Texas) with a small population (less than 2 million at that time). I don't think that the book can be taught to any 15 year olds, I think it can easily be taught to 15 year old students interested in math, as other similar books have been. In a not disimilar manner I know others who started olympic level swimming training in high school as part of their high school curriculum. Not for everyone, just for those high school students with aptitude. I have spent time in a classroom as a mathematics assistant tutor, it was good pick up money during the five years I attended university. Naturally many people that were awarded Ph.D. attended high school, I'm unsure why you would choose to exclude them from the population of high school students. The state of things in average state run Western Australia high schools in the 1980s was that most student got mainstream education and students that showed promise in any number of different ares would get moved to specialised stream or invited to subsidised speciality camps; these existed for math, literature, theatre, music, sports, machining, etc. eg. Heath Ledger got more theatre exposure in his High School years in this state than the majority of other high school students .. the fact that they didn't go on to play the Joker in a major Hollywood production doesn't negate what he did in high school. You clearly have no idea about the average high school in the place and time to which I refer. My own son attended a state high school (free public education) that had an aviation course, he and his classmates built an aircraft over two years and then took turns flying it. ( https://www.kentstreetshs.wa.edu.au/aviation https://www.kentstreetshs.wa.edu.au/aviation ) It's sad that you seem to want to homogenize the high school experience to the least common denominator. EDIT: “I did it therefore you can too” - not a claim I made, please stop strawmanning. Again, there is nothing preventing a university level text being taught to high school students with aptitude and this actually happens in some education systems outside your ken. In parallel other advanced subjects and skills can also be taught to high school students with aptitude .. and some education systems do this. I'm sorry you apparently have not experienced such a system.
fc417fc802 1y ago
I'll chime in as someone from the US who attended a public school and took a calculus class that used a university level text and did exactly as you described. Color me surprised when I arrived at university only to encounter that same book in use for the calculus course sequence. The person you're engaging with here clearly has an overly generalized view of the US educational system (and is overly confident in it). It's not surprising that there's a bit of variance - the place is rather large after all.