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While Apple may not sell your data if you opt out of tracking, it still knows your habits. I've seen this stated many times but no one ever seems to follow thr

While Apple may not sell your data if you opt out of tracking, it still knows your habits. I've seen this stated many times but no one ever seems to follow through with the logic. It takes time, effort and storage for Apple to "know your habits". In other words, this costs them money. Why would they spend money collecting data if they don't intend to monetize it in some way? It doesn't make sense does it? If it sounds too good to be true, it probably is.

Teever 1y ago
Think about it this way. Whatever it costs to collect and store this data is some absurdly trivial fraction of Apple's entire value. Imagine if you personally could do the same to someone for an equivalent fraction of your net worth. Would you not try and maximize the number of people you collect data on? Just out of pure curiosity -- even if you couldn't sell the data?
- jqpabc123 1y ago
  some absurdly trivial fraction of Apple's entire value. Sorry, that logic doesn't hold. Charging users $1 per month for an iCloud subscription capable of backing up your phone is some absurdly trivial fraction of Apple's entire value --- yet they still do it. Just out of pure curiosity I think it's pretty well established that large corporations are mainly motivated by money --- not curiosity. But suggesting otherwise does tend to validate my point --- the extreme viewpoint needed to rationalize the actions of a company that touts privacy.
  - Teever 1y ago
    The data we're talking about has a strategic value even if its monetary value isn't quite so clear at this point in time. Apple may not sell this personal data, but it can and likely does use bhavioral insights to optimize its products to increase engagement and ultimately ecosystem lock-in. These are indirect forms of monetization that accrue into revenue over time and it's hard to gauge their success right now. So Apple like all big companies collect as much data as they can and store it because they know that the costs of doing so are trivial and the potential benefits are potentially very high.
    - jqpabc123 1y ago
      So in other words, they're tracking you now just so they can monetize your data later if they choose to --- for example, if they decide they *really* need to goose profits a little. This doesn't exactly give me a warm privacy feeling.
walterbell 1y ago
"Apple software update “bug” enables Apple Intelligence", 130 comments, https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43008422 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43008422
protimewaster 1y ago
It's known that Apple collects a decent amount of telemetry, including URLs associated with certain actions on iOS, even when telemetry is disabled and Apple account isn't used. Some of this is detailed in the 2021 paper "Mobile Handset Privacy: Measuring The Data iOS and Android Send to Apple And Google". They're definitely working to connect telemetry on at least some of your habits.

Teever 1y ago

Think about it this way. Whatever it costs to collect and store this data is some absurdly trivial fraction of Apple's entire value. Imagine if you personally could do the same to someone for an equivalent fraction of your net worth. Would you not try and maximize the number of people you collect data on? Just out of pure curiosity -- even if you couldn't sell the data?

jqpabc123 1y ago
some absurdly trivial fraction of Apple's entire value. Sorry, that logic doesn't hold. Charging users $1 per month for an iCloud subscription capable of backing up your phone is some absurdly trivial fraction of Apple's entire value --- yet they still do it. Just out of pure curiosity I think it's pretty well established that large corporations are mainly motivated by money --- not curiosity. But suggesting otherwise does tend to validate my point --- the extreme viewpoint needed to rationalize the actions of a company that touts privacy.
- Teever 1y ago
  The data we're talking about has a strategic value even if its monetary value isn't quite so clear at this point in time. Apple may not sell this personal data, but it can and likely does use bhavioral insights to optimize its products to increase engagement and ultimately ecosystem lock-in. These are indirect forms of monetization that accrue into revenue over time and it's hard to gauge their success right now. So Apple like all big companies collect as much data as they can and store it because they know that the costs of doing so are trivial and the potential benefits are potentially very high.
  - jqpabc123 1y ago
    So in other words, they're tracking you now just so they can monetize your data later if they choose to --- for example, if they decide they *really* need to goose profits a little. This doesn't exactly give me a warm privacy feeling.

walterbell 1y ago

"Apple software update “bug” enables Apple Intelligence", 130 comments, https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43008422 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43008422

protimewaster 1y ago

It's known that Apple collects a decent amount of telemetry, including URLs associated with certain actions on iOS, even when telemetry is disabled and Apple account isn't used. Some of this is detailed in the 2021 paper "Mobile Handset Privacy: Measuring The Data iOS and Android Send to Apple And Google". They're definitely working to connect telemetry on at least some of your habits.