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The interesting questions are: - When will their toolset drop support for compiling for Intel / x86_64? - When will they drop Rosetta2? Compiling/delivering

The interesting questions are: - When will their toolset drop support for compiling for Intel / x86_64? - When will they drop Rosetta2? Compiling/delivering universal binaries is something that as a developer, especially for some markets, you’d like to keep. meaning we try to support older Macs as possible. For Rosetta2, it might be less needed with all apps transitioned, but for developers using containers, it might be more important to have Intel based containers for a longer period.

coconut08 1y ago
seems like rosetta 2 will be around for a long time, especially considering they are still putting dev effort into game porting toolkit which is heavily dependent on rosetta 2.
camillomiller 1y ago
I have answers ;) • Rosetta will remain available as a general-purpose tool through macOS 27 to help developers migrate their Intel apps, with limited gaming-focused functionality continuing beyond that timeframe • Intel-based Macs will continue receiving security updates for 3 years following macOS Tahoe • After the general Rosetta support ends, Apple will maintain a subset of Rosetta functionality specifically for older unmaintained gaming titles that depend on Intel-based frameworks
- necubi 1y ago
  Rosetta is also very useful for running x86 Linux containers for dev workflows. Hopefully that will continue to be supported.
  - guappa 1y ago
    It's apple…
    - matthewmacleod 1y ago
      Who literally yesterday launched a container framework and tool.
      - msephton 1y ago
        ...that calls out its own compatibility with Rosetta 2.
- nottorp 1y ago
  Hmm sounds to me like Wine will die then, since it's an x86 application relying on Rosetta to run? Apple killing gaming on their platform again, like they did with the 32->64 bit transition... No, "new" ports to arm of 5 year old games sold at full price as app store exclusives don't count...
  - steelbrain 1y ago
    The “gaming focused functionality” mentioned in the parent post is probably referring to Game Porting Toolkit, which builds on top of wine. So no, It doesnt seen like Wine will die just yet
    - nottorp 1y ago
      "Rosetta will be pared back and will only be available to a limited subset of apps—specifically, older games that rely on Intel-specific libraries but are no longer being actively maintained by their developers. " Says the Ars Technica article about this topic. Doesn't sound like Wine at all to me...
- conradev 1y ago
  Which version of Xcode drops the last Intel SDK as a deployment target?
- kombine 1y ago
  > Intel-based Macs will continue receiving security updates for 3 years following macOS Tahoe This is is great to hear, but even 3 years are probably not enough. 2020-made computers should be used 5+ years more.
  - dwaite 1y ago
    Three years after Tahoe would be Sept 2029, thats two years past their hardware support (which goes to limited support at 5 and ends at 7)
- la_oveja 1y ago
  if i have a 2019 imac (coffee lake) for ios mobile development, how long will i be able to use it for that purpose? i am going to face xcode limitations? will i be able to still push to the app store in the years to come?
  - rock_artist 1y ago
    > if i have a 2019 imac (coffee lake) for ios mobile development, how long will i be able to use it for that purpose? i am going to face xcode limitations? will i be able to still push to the app store in the years to come? Based on appstore accepting only last {#}os SDK (not deployment target). Usually Xcode (and Safari) gets support for the previous OS. meaning, Xcode 26 min macOS is Sequoia 15.x. So, Xcode 27 min macOS will be macOS 26. That gives about 2.5 years for Intel Macs to allow complete AppStore integration. I guess https://github.com/xtool-org/xtool https://github.com/xtool-org/xtool might become more dominant. iiuc, it also valid to use it on "a Mac" even if it was phased out :)
- rock_artist 1y ago
  > After the general Rosetta support ends, Apple will maintain a subset of Rosetta functionality specifically for older unmaintained gaming titles that depend on Intel-based frameworks I guess Apple Rosetta support will be a mix of interests. 1. Apple currently has interest in getting games on their platform. They even made a debugger tool running on Windows so a game dev could profile/debug from his Windows machine :) 2. Unless Apple will have enough power (meaning they will have leverage over games devs), they won't be able to decide when they completely drop Rosetta2. 3. Most likely that companies with personal connections with key people at Apple would take part in when/if the pull the plug on Rosetta2. I guess big software companies might be able to convince Apple is they'll decide to remove it prematurely.
izacus 1y ago
> For Rosetta2, it might be less needed with all apps transitioned, but for developers using containers, it might be more important to have Intel based containers for a longer period. Most of the games I have from Steam/GoG on my M1 Mac are running through Rosetta2 ... and that probably won't change in the future. It seems like dropping Rosetta2 is yet another way for Apple to murder their own relevancy for any kind of gaming... despite ok hardware.
- rollcat 1y ago
  This. Apple in the past couple of years was all like, "oh look, gaming on macOS is good now". I can run a 1995 game OOB on my Windows laptop in 2025. My question is: on macOS, what's the actual market for casual games, like most of what's on Apple Arcade - especially against iOS? What's the market for the few AAA titles they promote - vs Windows? People want their existing libraries. With Arm64 in the way, developers who up until now only had to target x86, will care even less. Factorio only cared because they already had a Switch port underway: <https://www.factorio.com/blog/post/fff-371 https://www.factorio.com/blog/post/fff-371> Dropping Rosetta2 will be the final nail in the coffin. If Apple did actually care about games, they would strike a deal with Codeweavers to integrate Crossover directly with the system. Maybe I'll finally get a proper Windows gaming machine.
fsflover 1y ago
> When will they drop Rosetta2? https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44238145 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44238145

coconut08 1y ago

seems like rosetta 2 will be around for a long time, especially considering they are still putting dev effort into game porting toolkit which is heavily dependent on rosetta 2.

camillomiller 1y ago

I have answers ;) • Rosetta will remain available as a general-purpose tool through macOS 27 to help developers migrate their Intel apps, with limited gaming-focused functionality continuing beyond that timeframe • Intel-based Macs will continue receiving security updates for 3 years following macOS Tahoe • After the general Rosetta support ends, Apple will maintain a subset of Rosetta functionality specifically for older unmaintained gaming titles that depend on Intel-based frameworks

necubi 1y ago
Rosetta is also very useful for running x86 Linux containers for dev workflows. Hopefully that will continue to be supported.
- guappa 1y ago
  It's apple…
  - matthewmacleod 1y ago
    Who literally yesterday launched a container framework and tool.
    - msephton 1y ago
      ...that calls out its own compatibility with Rosetta 2.
nottorp 1y ago
Hmm sounds to me like Wine will die then, since it's an x86 application relying on Rosetta to run? Apple killing gaming on their platform again, like they did with the 32->64 bit transition... No, "new" ports to arm of 5 year old games sold at full price as app store exclusives don't count...
- steelbrain 1y ago
  The “gaming focused functionality” mentioned in the parent post is probably referring to Game Porting Toolkit, which builds on top of wine. So no, It doesnt seen like Wine will die just yet
  - nottorp 1y ago
    "Rosetta will be pared back and will only be available to a limited subset of apps—specifically, older games that rely on Intel-specific libraries but are no longer being actively maintained by their developers. " Says the Ars Technica article about this topic. Doesn't sound like Wine at all to me...
conradev 1y ago
Which version of Xcode drops the last Intel SDK as a deployment target?
kombine 1y ago
> Intel-based Macs will continue receiving security updates for 3 years following macOS Tahoe This is is great to hear, but even 3 years are probably not enough. 2020-made computers should be used 5+ years more.
- dwaite 1y ago
  Three years after Tahoe would be Sept 2029, thats two years past their hardware support (which goes to limited support at 5 and ends at 7)
la_oveja 1y ago
if i have a 2019 imac (coffee lake) for ios mobile development, how long will i be able to use it for that purpose? i am going to face xcode limitations? will i be able to still push to the app store in the years to come?
- rock_artist 1y ago
  > if i have a 2019 imac (coffee lake) for ios mobile development, how long will i be able to use it for that purpose? i am going to face xcode limitations? will i be able to still push to the app store in the years to come? Based on appstore accepting only last {#}os SDK (not deployment target). Usually Xcode (and Safari) gets support for the previous OS. meaning, Xcode 26 min macOS is Sequoia 15.x. So, Xcode 27 min macOS will be macOS 26. That gives about 2.5 years for Intel Macs to allow complete AppStore integration. I guess https://github.com/xtool-org/xtool https://github.com/xtool-org/xtool might become more dominant. iiuc, it also valid to use it on "a Mac" even if it was phased out :)
rock_artist 1y ago
> After the general Rosetta support ends, Apple will maintain a subset of Rosetta functionality specifically for older unmaintained gaming titles that depend on Intel-based frameworks I guess Apple Rosetta support will be a mix of interests. 1. Apple currently has interest in getting games on their platform. They even made a debugger tool running on Windows so a game dev could profile/debug from his Windows machine :) 2. Unless Apple will have enough power (meaning they will have leverage over games devs), they won't be able to decide when they completely drop Rosetta2. 3. Most likely that companies with personal connections with key people at Apple would take part in when/if the pull the plug on Rosetta2. I guess big software companies might be able to convince Apple is they'll decide to remove it prematurely.

izacus 1y ago

> For Rosetta2, it might be less needed with all apps transitioned, but for developers using containers, it might be more important to have Intel based containers for a longer period. Most of the games I have from Steam/GoG on my M1 Mac are running through Rosetta2 ... and that probably won't change in the future. It seems like dropping Rosetta2 is yet another way for Apple to murder their own relevancy for any kind of gaming... despite ok hardware.

rollcat 1y ago
This. Apple in the past couple of years was all like, "oh look, gaming on macOS is good now". I can run a 1995 game OOB on my Windows laptop in 2025. My question is: on macOS, what's the actual market for casual games, like most of what's on Apple Arcade - especially against iOS? What's the market for the few AAA titles they promote - vs Windows? People want their existing libraries. With Arm64 in the way, developers who up until now only had to target x86, will care even less. Factorio only cared because they already had a Switch port underway: <https://www.factorio.com/blog/post/fff-371 https://www.factorio.com/blog/post/fff-371> Dropping Rosetta2 will be the final nail in the coffin. If Apple did actually care about games, they would strike a deal with Codeweavers to integrate Crossover directly with the system. Maybe I'll finally get a proper Windows gaming machine.

fsflover 1y ago

> When will they drop Rosetta2? https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44238145 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44238145