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Oh, so just like it happened during the Industrial Revolution, right? Where everyone was supposed to eventually go out of a job because machines would replace u

Oh, so just like it happened during the Industrial Revolution, right? Where everyone was supposed to eventually go out of a job because machines would replace us… I live in a country where we need unchecked immigration because “nationals don’t want to do the jobs they do” (never mind less than a 3rd of those immigrants are actually working). So, kind of hard to fit reality with your predictions when there’s clearly work to do (hard work for sure), but lot of people already prefer to live off the welfare state than to bother doing it.

M95D 1y ago
> lot of people already prefer to live off the welfare state How many?
- wtcactus 1y ago
  According to the official Portuguese data, 700000 persons between the age of 25 to 65 are not working. So, more than 11.5% of the population between those ages already - population between 20-65 is 6 millions. So, get this correctly. More than 11.5% of the population between 25 and 65 are already not working and living off the welfare state. That's how many. Great, isn't it. May be because all the robots are already doing our work, I guess...
  - owebmaster 1y ago
    1 out of 10 not working? Wow. I wasn't expecting to be this low already.
    - wtcactus 1y ago
      No, it's 5 out of 10 not working if you count everyone. What I'm saying is that even among those that are the population that can work, more than 1 out of 10 are also not working. So yeah, every worker, is not supporting himself and somebody else. And even when you discount children and older people, more than 11.5% of them don't want to work already. This is completely unsustainable and has nothing to do with AI replacing us. P.S. Never mind that Portugal (and from what I understand, most Europeans countries) don't have a proper Retirement fund, and present workers are basically paying the retirement of retirees. This is because they contributed too little compared to what they receive now, and the state never invested their money - but used it to pay people that came before them and never made discounts for retirement.
      - M95D 1y ago
        11.5% is the total. My question was how many of them actually receive any benefits? Or, even better, how much of the budget is spent on benefits for those that don't work?
        wtcactus 1y ago
        No, the total is 49.50%. 49.50% of the Population in Portugal doesn't work and needs to be supported by those who work. And there are 6 millions capable of working between the ages of 20-65. Of those, only 5 millions work. So, you need to calculate the budget spent on those half of the population that doesn't work - in some cases because they are too young or too old, and then ask: why is close to a million of those that can actually work, living off the state anyway, instead of working for them, and for the other person they should be supporting. Maybe they built their own AI robot I guess, and now they don't need to do anything... Surely a case for UBI.
owebmaster 1y ago
> Oh, so just like it happened during the Industrial Revolution, right? Jobs migrated from agriculture > industry > service. Automating Services will demand a new layer for occupation that doesn't exist.
- wtcactus 1y ago
  Exactly, that's my point. AI will not replace the workers, they will migrate to other jobs, like it happened during the Industrial Revolution. People will continue working.
  - owebmaster 1y ago
    I think you didn't understand what I said. It's not because it happened in the past that there is space to happen again, work will move from services to where?
    - wtcactus 1y ago
      Yes, I did misunderstand you, but you also are pretending that the Industrial Revolution removed the need for human workers in any sector of activity whatsoever. If anything, and even in percentage of the world population, it created a lot more jobs in the industry sector itself - the main one the doom sayers at the time predicted it would replace.

M95D 1y ago

> lot of people already prefer to live off the welfare state How many?

wtcactus 1y ago
According to the official Portuguese data, 700000 persons between the age of 25 to 65 are not working. So, more than 11.5% of the population between those ages already - population between 20-65 is 6 millions. So, get this correctly. More than 11.5% of the population between 25 and 65 are already not working and living off the welfare state. That's how many. Great, isn't it. May be because all the robots are already doing our work, I guess...
- owebmaster 1y ago
  1 out of 10 not working? Wow. I wasn't expecting to be this low already.
  - wtcactus 1y ago
    No, it's 5 out of 10 not working if you count everyone. What I'm saying is that even among those that are the population that can work, more than 1 out of 10 are also not working. So yeah, every worker, is not supporting himself and somebody else. And even when you discount children and older people, more than 11.5% of them don't want to work already. This is completely unsustainable and has nothing to do with AI replacing us. P.S. Never mind that Portugal (and from what I understand, most Europeans countries) don't have a proper Retirement fund, and present workers are basically paying the retirement of retirees. This is because they contributed too little compared to what they receive now, and the state never invested their money - but used it to pay people that came before them and never made discounts for retirement.
    - M95D 1y ago
      11.5% is the total. My question was how many of them actually receive any benefits? Or, even better, how much of the budget is spent on benefits for those that don't work?
      - wtcactus 1y ago
        No, the total is 49.50%. 49.50% of the Population in Portugal doesn't work and needs to be supported by those who work. And there are 6 millions capable of working between the ages of 20-65. Of those, only 5 millions work. So, you need to calculate the budget spent on those half of the population that doesn't work - in some cases because they are too young or too old, and then ask: why is close to a million of those that can actually work, living off the state anyway, instead of working for them, and for the other person they should be supporting. Maybe they built their own AI robot I guess, and now they don't need to do anything... Surely a case for UBI.

owebmaster 1y ago

> Oh, so just like it happened during the Industrial Revolution, right? Jobs migrated from agriculture > industry > service. Automating Services will demand a new layer for occupation that doesn't exist.

wtcactus 1y ago
Exactly, that's my point. AI will not replace the workers, they will migrate to other jobs, like it happened during the Industrial Revolution. People will continue working.
- owebmaster 1y ago
  I think you didn't understand what I said. It's not because it happened in the past that there is space to happen again, work will move from services to where?
  - wtcactus 1y ago
    Yes, I did misunderstand you, but you also are pretending that the Industrial Revolution removed the need for human workers in any sector of activity whatsoever. If anything, and even in percentage of the world population, it created a lot more jobs in the industry sector itself - the main one the doom sayers at the time predicted it would replace.