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I think people greatly overestimate the importance of respectability and majority approval in mass protest movements. The protest has to be disruptive enough to

by tdeck 1y ago

I think people greatly overestimate the importance of respectability and majority approval in mass protest movements. The protest has to be disruptive enough to affect the powerful, and approachable enough for sufficient people to join. For all the work that MLK and his coalition did to practice nonviolence and to appear respectable, they were always disliked by the majority of the public. Being liked by the public is not a prerequisite to getting results. If you focus too much on respectibility, the impact of what you can do decreases until it hits YouGov petition levels.

bawolff 1y ago
I think there is a world of difference between being "annoying" or not "respectable" and being threatening. Being annoying can be quite beneficial to a protest. It brings attention and forces people to think about you. There is a point after which it turns people off, and becomes a net negative, but you usually have to be very annoying for that to happen. Being scary is entirely different thing though. When people are afraid they tend to become closed off to new ideas, and look to strong leaders. You absolutely don't want that in a protest. > The protest has to be disruptive enough to affect the powerful, and approachable enough for sufficient people to join. I think the ultimate point of a protest is to reach the ordinary people who aren't part of a movement. Movements succede and fail not by how much they convince the die hard supporters, but by how much they convinced average uninvolved people.
- tdeck 1y ago
  My challenge to you is to take a successful movement from the past and really look into whether people were afraid of that movement. You might be surprised at what you find. People were effectively fearmongering about every movement.
  - bawolff 1y ago
    I'm not sure i understand what you're trying to say here. I agree people fearmonger most movements. That directly follows from my point.
rocqua 1y ago
Nonviolent protest doesn't need to be respectable. It needs the moral high ground. That means you need to goad the enforcement to use violence against you. This doesn't just work by getting the public on your side. It works by showing that you are not repressed by fear. Fear is how facists rule, so showing others they don't need to fear, that they can decide not to fear, that is the real threat to authority. That means they will abuse you to make others fear. When that happens, you need it to trigger outrage as widely as possible.

by tdeck 1y ago

bawolff 1y ago

I think there is a world of difference between being "annoying" or not "respectable" and being threatening. Being annoying can be quite beneficial to a protest. It brings attention and forces people to think about you. There is a point after which it turns people off, and becomes a net negative, but you usually have to be very annoying for that to happen. Being scary is entirely different thing though. When people are afraid they tend to become closed off to new ideas, and look to strong leaders. You absolutely don't want that in a protest. > The protest has to be disruptive enough to affect the powerful, and approachable enough for sufficient people to join. I think the ultimate point of a protest is to reach the ordinary people who aren't part of a movement. Movements succede and fail not by how much they convince the die hard supporters, but by how much they convinced average uninvolved people.

tdeck 1y ago
My challenge to you is to take a successful movement from the past and really look into whether people were afraid of that movement. You might be surprised at what you find. People were effectively fearmongering about every movement.
- bawolff 1y ago
  I'm not sure i understand what you're trying to say here. I agree people fearmonger most movements. That directly follows from my point.

rocqua 1y ago

Nonviolent protest doesn't need to be respectable. It needs the moral high ground. That means you need to goad the enforcement to use violence against you. This doesn't just work by getting the public on your side. It works by showing that you are not repressed by fear. Fear is how facists rule, so showing others they don't need to fear, that they can decide not to fear, that is the real threat to authority. That means they will abuse you to make others fear. When that happens, you need it to trigger outrage as widely as possible.