6 ms·

> This is probably an unpopular opinion but I would like politicians on the left to speak up about the rioting and burning of stuff at the current protests and

by ekidd 1y ago

> This is probably an unpopular opinion but I would like politicians on the left to speak up about the rioting and burning of stuff at the current protests and also the Tesla and George Floyd protests. I mean, Gavin Newsom just did a long interview from a "crisis center" where he did exactly that, today. And plenty of Democratic politicians also speak against violent protests whenever they occur. But unless you actually pay pretty close attention to what Democratic politicians actually say, you won't hear these statements. Fox doesn't cover Democratic politicians speaking against violence. And frankly, if there's a 99.9% peaceful protest with one burning car, the media will devote 80% of their coverage to the burning car, and maybe a few sentences to politicians saying the burning car is bad. The media is unfortunately interested in spectacle and entertainment. I pay more attention than average to what politicians of both parties say, and it's kind of hilarious how often I hear "Why didn't so-and-so say X?" (uh, they do every week or two), or "I never believed so-and-so would do Y" (uh, they literally promised Y on the campaign trail). I don't know how to fix this.

speakfreely 1y ago
The Democratic politicians have painted themselves into a corner by trying to maintain far left support. Compare the messaging: Trump: We must have law and order. Immigration laws must be enforced. We will not tolerate riots or destruction. Protesters: The government shouldn't detain people who are in the country illegally. We should ignore federal laws we don't agree with. If we disagree with federal agents who are enforcing existing laws, we should impede them, attack them, and destroy property to lash out. This is not an endorsement of Trump, as he's clearly milking this situation to squeeze Newsom. This is a deliberate strategy to put Newsom in an untenable position and paint him as an irredeemable liberal to everyone outside California. Until the left takes a logically defensible position on illegal immigration, they will continue to be vulnerable to Trump's theater on this and he will continue to bludgeon them with it in elections.
- NalNezumi 1y ago
  >The Democratic politicians have painted themselves into a corner by trying to maintain far left support >This is a deliberate strategy to put Newsom in an untenable position and paint him as an irredeemable liberal What's fascinating with current US politics and media is how these two sentences can be constructed in same sentence in an attempt to come off as "see I'm smart and media literate, I can see the full picture!" while literally the first sentence of your comment shows that that's not the case. The media repeating "Democrats are far left" long enough and it have penetrated your head. There's probably pandering to far left in democratic party I assume, but it have been magnified to a reality altering level by media so that's now believed as the core, while same thing happening on the far-right & Republican party. Both side must be truly be thinking like you, I assume. "I see the full picture, I'm smart" while parroting a distortion only required to be repeated for years. If everyone could put their phone down, touch some grass, take a road trip to the opposite political isle maybe this distortion could've been avoided.
  - LightHugger 1y ago
    First of all, chill out, for someone tooting their own horn, your own perspective is very one dimensional. What's really interesting about the democratic party's position is how they've utterly failed to embrace the popular parts of "left" policy (universal healthcare and etc, basically look at bernie sanders for what policy is actually widely popular on the left). And yet, they embrace incredibly unpopular parts of "extreme left". Being pro-illegal immigration is incredibly stupid and unpopular. DEI discrimination on the basis of race is also incredibly stupid and unpopular. I suppose i could also mention transitions for children. Need i mention free speech? It's a travesty that republicans have become the free speech party, but it's something the left has ceded. So we're in a situation where the democratic party is utterly failing to actually implement any of the good or popular left policies that would help the masses, even the pretty moderate ones, but is pushing incredibly unpopular extreme left policies that don't actually help the citizenry. In that context it's honestly a very reasonable thing for someone on the right to point to the dems call the party far left. And yet for those of us that want these policies for the people, the dems appear right-leaning. Very odd how this has worked out, but both are true in a way. I think the reason behind this is mainly due to them being controlled by their corporate donors who dictate focusing on the unpopular policies which are cheaper for the corporations to contend with. Universal healthcare would be a huge blow to corporate control in this country, as right now healthcare is tied to employment and that gives large corporate employers incredibly excessive power.
    - NalNezumi 1y ago
      I don't know how my comment gave the impression I'm agitated. I'm far from US so it's just an outsider observation. In either case, thank you for the insight. It didn't give me any additional insight and while you call it one dimensional, I only see an expansion of the same idea I shared: both sides use culture war to smear each other (and as a lazy cop-out to game the media attention for coverage and votes). Most people have heard of AOC, Bernie, and Elizabeth Warren's. Even Ted Cruz & RFK JR (pre election). Surely when congress is 400+ and senate is 100+ people, those names don't represent ALL of the intricate factions of the two parties? Yet we all act like they somehow are the representative of the opposite. To me you're just saying the same thing, but relieving any responsibility of the parrots, and putting it solely on corporate and self interested politician. If those culture wars win votes, I think putting the sole responsibility that way is just an convenient excuse for everyone to play along the system and shout at each other. I guess to the people shouting at each other, my comment might have come off as "touting my horn". I'm from the outside, I don't have any high horse or stakes in this but I understand the confusion
- UncleEntity 1y ago
  > We will not tolerate riots or destruction. Well, unless it's done in furtherance of our agenda and against Congress...
  - goatlover 1y ago
    I haven't seen where LAPD is tolerating riots or destruction. This is propaganda.
- justinrubek 1y ago
  You're further pushing the narrative here. If the government had acted entirely within the law then people would be less upset about it. I don't think it'd be entirely gone, but lesser for sure. Until the right takes a logically defensive position on illegal immigration, they will continue to trigger this reaction.
  - speakfreely 1y ago
    That's the point; the right WANTS this reaction. It's how they will continue to capture the American center. Masked people waving Mexican flags while they stand on top of burned out police cars is a gift to them. Trump's political superpower is his ability to take a base position that is entirely reasonable and agreeable to most people ("The US must enforce its federal immigration laws"), then use inflammatory rhetoric and legal boundary testing to whip his opposition into undisciplined, emotional overreactions that leave them in a worse political position than him. He has been absurdly successful in using this tactic since 2015.
    - CapricornNoble 1y ago
      I think that's a really succinct description of "how Trump works"....and it's also an interesting case study in Gerasimov's "Reflexive Control Doctrine".
- goatlover 1y ago
  The far left are anarchists and communists. They consider the Democratic party part of the capitalist system that needs to be replaced. Democrats are the neoliberal party. Democrats are not trying to get their support. Right-wing media has painted Democrats and progressives as radical far leftists, but it's simply not true. Most of their policies can be seen implemented in Europe.
  - Slava_Propanei 1y ago
    [dead]

by ekidd 1y ago

speakfreely 1y ago

The Democratic politicians have painted themselves into a corner by trying to maintain far left support. Compare the messaging: Trump: We must have law and order. Immigration laws must be enforced. We will not tolerate riots or destruction. Protesters: The government shouldn't detain people who are in the country illegally. We should ignore federal laws we don't agree with. If we disagree with federal agents who are enforcing existing laws, we should impede them, attack them, and destroy property to lash out. This is not an endorsement of Trump, as he's clearly milking this situation to squeeze Newsom. This is a deliberate strategy to put Newsom in an untenable position and paint him as an irredeemable liberal to everyone outside California. Until the left takes a logically defensible position on illegal immigration, they will continue to be vulnerable to Trump's theater on this and he will continue to bludgeon them with it in elections.

NalNezumi 1y ago
>The Democratic politicians have painted themselves into a corner by trying to maintain far left support >This is a deliberate strategy to put Newsom in an untenable position and paint him as an irredeemable liberal What's fascinating with current US politics and media is how these two sentences can be constructed in same sentence in an attempt to come off as "see I'm smart and media literate, I can see the full picture!" while literally the first sentence of your comment shows that that's not the case. The media repeating "Democrats are far left" long enough and it have penetrated your head. There's probably pandering to far left in democratic party I assume, but it have been magnified to a reality altering level by media so that's now believed as the core, while same thing happening on the far-right & Republican party. Both side must be truly be thinking like you, I assume. "I see the full picture, I'm smart" while parroting a distortion only required to be repeated for years. If everyone could put their phone down, touch some grass, take a road trip to the opposite political isle maybe this distortion could've been avoided.
- LightHugger 1y ago
  First of all, chill out, for someone tooting their own horn, your own perspective is very one dimensional. What's really interesting about the democratic party's position is how they've utterly failed to embrace the popular parts of "left" policy (universal healthcare and etc, basically look at bernie sanders for what policy is actually widely popular on the left). And yet, they embrace incredibly unpopular parts of "extreme left". Being pro-illegal immigration is incredibly stupid and unpopular. DEI discrimination on the basis of race is also incredibly stupid and unpopular. I suppose i could also mention transitions for children. Need i mention free speech? It's a travesty that republicans have become the free speech party, but it's something the left has ceded. So we're in a situation where the democratic party is utterly failing to actually implement any of the good or popular left policies that would help the masses, even the pretty moderate ones, but is pushing incredibly unpopular extreme left policies that don't actually help the citizenry. In that context it's honestly a very reasonable thing for someone on the right to point to the dems call the party far left. And yet for those of us that want these policies for the people, the dems appear right-leaning. Very odd how this has worked out, but both are true in a way. I think the reason behind this is mainly due to them being controlled by their corporate donors who dictate focusing on the unpopular policies which are cheaper for the corporations to contend with. Universal healthcare would be a huge blow to corporate control in this country, as right now healthcare is tied to employment and that gives large corporate employers incredibly excessive power.
  - NalNezumi 1y ago
    I don't know how my comment gave the impression I'm agitated. I'm far from US so it's just an outsider observation. In either case, thank you for the insight. It didn't give me any additional insight and while you call it one dimensional, I only see an expansion of the same idea I shared: both sides use culture war to smear each other (and as a lazy cop-out to game the media attention for coverage and votes). Most people have heard of AOC, Bernie, and Elizabeth Warren's. Even Ted Cruz & RFK JR (pre election). Surely when congress is 400+ and senate is 100+ people, those names don't represent ALL of the intricate factions of the two parties? Yet we all act like they somehow are the representative of the opposite. To me you're just saying the same thing, but relieving any responsibility of the parrots, and putting it solely on corporate and self interested politician. If those culture wars win votes, I think putting the sole responsibility that way is just an convenient excuse for everyone to play along the system and shout at each other. I guess to the people shouting at each other, my comment might have come off as "touting my horn". I'm from the outside, I don't have any high horse or stakes in this but I understand the confusion
UncleEntity 1y ago
> We will not tolerate riots or destruction. Well, unless it's done in furtherance of our agenda and against Congress...
- goatlover 1y ago
  I haven't seen where LAPD is tolerating riots or destruction. This is propaganda.
justinrubek 1y ago
You're further pushing the narrative here. If the government had acted entirely within the law then people would be less upset about it. I don't think it'd be entirely gone, but lesser for sure. Until the right takes a logically defensive position on illegal immigration, they will continue to trigger this reaction.
- speakfreely 1y ago
  That's the point; the right WANTS this reaction. It's how they will continue to capture the American center. Masked people waving Mexican flags while they stand on top of burned out police cars is a gift to them. Trump's political superpower is his ability to take a base position that is entirely reasonable and agreeable to most people ("The US must enforce its federal immigration laws"), then use inflammatory rhetoric and legal boundary testing to whip his opposition into undisciplined, emotional overreactions that leave them in a worse political position than him. He has been absurdly successful in using this tactic since 2015.
  - CapricornNoble 1y ago
    I think that's a really succinct description of "how Trump works"....and it's also an interesting case study in Gerasimov's "Reflexive Control Doctrine".
goatlover 1y ago
The far left are anarchists and communists. They consider the Democratic party part of the capitalist system that needs to be replaced. Democrats are the neoliberal party. Democrats are not trying to get their support. Right-wing media has painted Democrats and progressives as radical far leftists, but it's simply not true. Most of their policies can be seen implemented in Europe.
- Slava_Propanei 1y ago
  [dead]