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> People became more anti-vax largely due to the prior administration more than RFKjr. People became more anti-vax because of the large contingent pushing anti

> People became more anti-vax largely due to the prior administration more than RFKjr. People became more anti-vax because of the large contingent pushing anti-vax conspiracies to a credulous audience. The previous administration’s policies were a significant success. Any idea they were a failure or a mistake is wrong.

const_cast 1y ago
Right, I don't understand why these people are constructing these elaborate and convoluted mechanism for which anti-vax rhetoric increased. It's very simple: if you push more anti-vax talking points and conspiracies, then naturally those ideas will be more popular in the zeitgeist. And, well, the right in general has been doing just that. Two plus two, now there's a lot more anti-vax people.
- kcplate 1y ago
  [flagged]
  - const_cast 1y ago
    The Covid vaccine was, and remains, very effective and overall safe. What it never was, and was never advertised to be, is 100% effective or 100% safe. Because nothing is, even air and water. I don't know where people's obviously incorrect and unrealistic expectation of the Covid vaccine came from. Well, I can guess: anti-vax rhetoric. But, everyone on Earth should know that of course the Covid vaccine is not magic. Because no vaccines are magic. And no medicines are magic. And no substances are magic. When people say seatbelts are safe, I don't see gremlins coming out of the woodwork to "erm, akshually" that. But, as soon as someone says the Covid vaccine is safe, suddenly everyone is Helen Keller. This is not your first day on Earth. Please, stop acting stupid. Overall, yes, having the Covid vaccine lowers your risk of Covid-related bad things. It is effective, full stop. Please don't try to refute this or argue against because I just don't care.
    - Auracle 1y ago
      Very effective? Really? Really? It was very effective at first, until the virus adapted. Literally every single person I know that has been vaccinated (or not) has had COVID. Sure, they might have had reduced symptoms - but there's no other vaccine commonly used that has such an awful infection rate. You could possibly argue the flu vaccine, but when they actually nail the strain it's quite effective. Sure, it's quite safe. But don't argue that it's effective. It's an awfully ineffective vaccine and there'd be more pressure for a better one if people stopped repeating that lie. We've figured out that mRNA vaccines targeting just a specific part of a virus are maybe great in an emergency but not great for long-term use. We need something better. People are still dying.
    - kcplate 1y ago
      > The Covid vaccine was, and remains, very effective What is your definition of “effective”? The public’s definition was “I get the shot and won’t get covid or be able to spread Covid”. I posted a compilation of our leadership saying that very thing too on this thread. Then lo and behold…we find out that not only can you can still get it, the disease is not any milder than when an unvaccinated person gets covid, and you can still spread it. I will repeat this again because people on HN can’t see the forest through the trees. I am not antivax. I got the vaccine. What I am suggesting is the government overselling the effectiveness contributed to a public shift towards antivax attitudes. You can put your hand over your ears and pretend it didn’t happen. You can post how “you don’t care” and don’t want a response…but that will not stop the attitude shift.
- defrost 1y ago
  The twelve people responsible for the bulk of those alternate theories were motivated by the profits to be made from alternative cures (see link in my peer commet and other similar reports).
kcplate 1y ago
Luke: “I don’t believe it…” Yoda: “And that is why you fail…”
defrost 1y ago
Not so much a large contingent pushing that stuff out, rather a small number that directly profited from "alternative cures" pushed hard and marketed well, which was picked up and echoed by many. Just 12 People Are Behind Most Vaccine Hoaxes On Social Media, Research Shows - https://www.npr.org/2021/05/13/996570855/disinformation-dozen-test-facebooks-twitters-ability-to-curb-vaccine-hoaxes https://www.npr.org/2021/05/13/996570855/disinformation-doze... Researchers have found just 12 people are responsible for the bulk of the misleading claims and outright lies about COVID-19 vaccines that proliferate on Facebook, Instagram and Twitter. "The 'Disinformation Dozen' produce 65% of the shares of anti-vaccine misinformation on social media platforms," said Imran Ahmed, chief executive officer of the Center for Countering Digital Hate, which identified the accounts.
- kcplate 1y ago
  [flagged]
- mcphage 1y ago
  Yeah, that’s fair. I was including downstream, like not just the immediate pushers, but the tv stations, and politicians, and podcasters, that were repeating those claims. But you’re right, it wasn’t really a large group, it was a loud group.

const_cast 1y ago

Right, I don't understand why these people are constructing these elaborate and convoluted mechanism for which anti-vax rhetoric increased. It's very simple: if you push more anti-vax talking points and conspiracies, then naturally those ideas will be more popular in the zeitgeist. And, well, the right in general has been doing just that. Two plus two, now there's a lot more anti-vax people.

kcplate 1y ago
[flagged]
- const_cast 1y ago
  The Covid vaccine was, and remains, very effective and overall safe. What it never was, and was never advertised to be, is 100% effective or 100% safe. Because nothing is, even air and water. I don't know where people's obviously incorrect and unrealistic expectation of the Covid vaccine came from. Well, I can guess: anti-vax rhetoric. But, everyone on Earth should know that of course the Covid vaccine is not magic. Because no vaccines are magic. And no medicines are magic. And no substances are magic. When people say seatbelts are safe, I don't see gremlins coming out of the woodwork to "erm, akshually" that. But, as soon as someone says the Covid vaccine is safe, suddenly everyone is Helen Keller. This is not your first day on Earth. Please, stop acting stupid. Overall, yes, having the Covid vaccine lowers your risk of Covid-related bad things. It is effective, full stop. Please don't try to refute this or argue against because I just don't care.
  - Auracle 1y ago
    Very effective? Really? Really? It was very effective at first, until the virus adapted. Literally every single person I know that has been vaccinated (or not) has had COVID. Sure, they might have had reduced symptoms - but there's no other vaccine commonly used that has such an awful infection rate. You could possibly argue the flu vaccine, but when they actually nail the strain it's quite effective. Sure, it's quite safe. But don't argue that it's effective. It's an awfully ineffective vaccine and there'd be more pressure for a better one if people stopped repeating that lie. We've figured out that mRNA vaccines targeting just a specific part of a virus are maybe great in an emergency but not great for long-term use. We need something better. People are still dying.
  - kcplate 1y ago
    > The Covid vaccine was, and remains, very effective What is your definition of “effective”? The public’s definition was “I get the shot and won’t get covid or be able to spread Covid”. I posted a compilation of our leadership saying that very thing too on this thread. Then lo and behold…we find out that not only can you can still get it, the disease is not any milder than when an unvaccinated person gets covid, and you can still spread it. I will repeat this again because people on HN can’t see the forest through the trees. I am not antivax. I got the vaccine. What I am suggesting is the government overselling the effectiveness contributed to a public shift towards antivax attitudes. You can put your hand over your ears and pretend it didn’t happen. You can post how “you don’t care” and don’t want a response…but that will not stop the attitude shift.
defrost 1y ago
The twelve people responsible for the bulk of those alternate theories were motivated by the profits to be made from alternative cures (see link in my peer commet and other similar reports).

kcplate 1y ago

Luke: “I don’t believe it…” Yoda: “And that is why you fail…”

defrost 1y ago

Not so much a large contingent pushing that stuff out, rather a small number that directly profited from "alternative cures" pushed hard and marketed well, which was picked up and echoed by many. Just 12 People Are Behind Most Vaccine Hoaxes On Social Media, Research Shows - https://www.npr.org/2021/05/13/996570855/disinformation-dozen-test-facebooks-twitters-ability-to-curb-vaccine-hoaxes https://www.npr.org/2021/05/13/996570855/disinformation-doze... Researchers have found just 12 people are responsible for the bulk of the misleading claims and outright lies about COVID-19 vaccines that proliferate on Facebook, Instagram and Twitter. "The 'Disinformation Dozen' produce 65% of the shares of anti-vaccine misinformation on social media platforms," said Imran Ahmed, chief executive officer of the Center for Countering Digital Hate, which identified the accounts.

kcplate 1y ago
[flagged]
mcphage 1y ago
Yeah, that’s fair. I was including downstream, like not just the immediate pushers, but the tv stations, and politicians, and podcasters, that were repeating those claims. But you’re right, it wasn’t really a large group, it was a loud group.